SHSS-260505-1530

This committee of the Senate Health and Social Services Committee will come to order— this hearing, rather. Today is Tuesday, May 5th. The time is 3:30 PM. We are in Butrovich Room 205. Members present are Senator Myers, Senator Clayman, Senator Tobin, Vice Chair Giesel, and myself, Chair Dunbar.

Let the record reflect that we have a quorum to conduct business. Before we begin, I would like to thank Mary Gwen Kawakami, the Senate Health and Social Services Recording Secretary, and Zach Lauthorn from the Juneau LIO for staffing the committee today. We have 2 items on our agenda. First up, a second hearing on HB 14, repeal catastrophic illness medical assistance, from Representative Stapp. Then we have 2 additional appointees from the governor for the State Medical Board.

So first up, we have HB 14. If you want to come forward, Representative Stapp and staff. The last time HB 14 was before the committee was on Thursday, February 17th, when the committee heard the sponsor statement and sectional analysis. Today the bill is before us in second hearing. We begin with a brief recap from the sponsor, have public testimony, and then look to the will of the committee.

Available for questions, we have Deb Etheridge, Director of the Department of Public Assistance. She's here in person. And of course we have Representative Stapp. Representative Stapp, do you have any brief remarks on this bill? For the record, Representative Staff, House District 32.

Thank you, Senator, members of the HESS Committee. And I just— just a brief recap of HB 14. It just repeals a program that no Alaskan has participated in in several years now. Legislature removed the funding for the allocation a couple of years ago, and the bill is just designed to remove it from the statute. Very good.

Uh, other questions for the representative before we go to public testimony?

Seeing no questions, okay. Uh, at this time we will open public testimony. Public testimony will be limited to 2 minutes. Testimony is now open. Is there anyone in the room wishing to testify on this bill?

All right, I don't see anyone online. You do? No one online? Thank you. All right.

With that, I will close public testimony. All right. Are there any further comments on this bill? Senator Giesel?

Seeing none, I would like to entertain a motion. Mr. Chairman, I move House Bill 14 version 34 LS0211/a from committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal note. Legal has authority to make any necessary conforming changes. Are there any objections?

Seeing none, HB 14 moves from committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal notes. We'll take a brief at ease to sign the paperwork. Thank you, Representative Stepp.

Back on the record. We are now going to take up the governor's appointments to the State Medical Board. Oh, sorry, brief at ease.

We are back on the record. We're going to now start hearing from the governor's appointees. First up, we have Dr. Robert Scala, appointee to the State Medical Board. Dr. Scala, if you could please state your name for the record and begin your testimony. My name is Dr. Robert Scala, S-K-A-L-A.

Uh, very good. Um, could you please, uh, begin your testimony? Uh, yes, sir. I'm a— I'm Dr. Robert Skelna. I'm a family medicine physician practicing in Eagle River since 2002 at True North Medicine.

I earned my DO from the Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine, and I completed my internship and residency at Dr. At Doctors Hospital in Columbus, Ohio. I served as a family physician in the US Army at Reynolds Army Community Hospital before moving back home to Alaska.

Very good. Um, well, thank you for being with us here today. Um, I'll, I'll start just, uh, as I do with a lot of folks. Could you describe your interest in the medical board and what you see as its challenges going forward? Uh, thank you.

Uh, my interest in serving on the Medical Board was actually based out of my concern that the Medical Board was getting short on members and may not have an opportunity to actually create a quorum to be able to provide for licensed qualified physicians and PAs and other providers, and then to be able to adopt regulation and have fair investigations or disciplining when standards aren't met. And trying to balance the needs for serving the patient population of Alaska and not actually have an unnecessary barrier to care because we couldn't find a quorum. So that was my interest in serving on the Medical Board. What was your second question? What you see as the upcoming issues or challenges for the board?

Well, I don't have a lot of experience with the board itself, so I guess I would say that You know, my perspective as a practicing physician is that this becomes a means for efficient credentialing and careful review of applications, have good fitness questions, have a consistent disciplinary process, make sure everything is evidence-based, and then ask the question, hey, are we able to protect patients and support good medical care in Alaska's unique environment? Very good. Um, are there questions from other members? I see one from Senator Tobin. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you, Dr. Skala, for stepping up. I too have similar concerns about the need to ensure that we have quorum for our state medical board. My curiosity is in looking at the current membership of the board, it all seems to be concentrated within the south-central corridor. And of course, the statute for our state medical board directs us to have geographic diversity as much as possible.

I'm curious, with the members that are currently on the board and your experience being a family medicine doctor in Eagle River, what is your intent or how do you anticipate ensuring that you provide good insight and thoughtful consideration and investigations for the other parts of Alaska that are not currently represented on our State Medical Board? Well, I guess I would say that despite the fact that I serve in Eagle River, I actually have patients, including one this very morning, who drove 6 hours to come and see me. So I would say that I don't look at my service as something that is exclusively local when I have patients driving up from Homer or down from Denali State Park or over from Fairbanks to come down and see me. I guess the other perspective that I would put out there is I did spend a year between the military and returning home to Alaska serving in a very a very rural Amish community in the countryside of Ohio. I guess that gave me some perspective that there has to be service for everyone.

I think that addressing some of those unique challenges, 98% of our state being pretty much underserved, I guess that I understand the reality of delivering care in remote areas a little bit better than maybe somebody who practices exclusively in a large city. I think that, you know, if I were looking at ways to serve those outlying communities, we would have maybe a streamlined licensure to get qualified out-of-state providers up here to maybe support telehealth medicine where it was clinically appropriate and making sure that the medical regulations don't create an unnecessary burden that deter good providers from practicing here. I think there's also going to end up being a role maybe even for expansion of the of the team-based care model so that we have an appropriate expansion of scope, maybe for PAs or nurse practitioners when they have the right confluence of training and experience and we have good evidence that they can improve access in underserved areas. Follow-up? Yes, follow-up.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Dr. Skala. I appreciate that insight. I am curious, as I didn't hear you talk about culturally responsive care and ensuring that our indigenous communities and folks who are not able to drive 5, 6 hours, have a good representation and good insight on our State Medical Board. Can you speak a little bit about what you plan to do to ensure that you have a holistic scope and a holistic view, as again, the, the current sitting members on our State Board are from Palmer, Anchorage, Eagle River, Wasilla, and Anchorage?

And I, being born and raised in Nome, find that deeply concerning, particularly with state statute saying as many separate geographical areas of the state as possible. Well, I guess my first thought is that if we can't maintain a quorum, well then it almost doesn't matter from where those doctors emanate. We need qualified candidates to keep the quorum functioning so that we don't fold our medical board and diminish service to the patient and medical community. I guess, you know, I guess from a philosophical perspective, I trained as a DO, not an MD, which means that from the very first day you step in the doors at any DO school, that, that thing you just said, that holistic approach to a patient's care that looks at the patient in relationship to the environment and not just a constellation of symptoms, is maybe the foundation of my training that I would bring to that state medical board. So if I had an advocacy, I guess it would be bring more people who are DOs if you have a concern about the holistic ideas that underpin the medical training that they received.

By the same token, like I said, I don't want to see the medical board fold.

Thank you, Dr. Scala. I have a question. Do you have a question? Senator Giesel has a question. Thank you.

Yes, thank you, Dr. Scala, for applying for this. Full disclosure, yeah, this is Senator Giesel. I'm a nurse practitioner. We've had plenary practice since 1984. I just thought you might want that update.

That means full practice. I am board certified in family practice and I have a DEA number, etc. So just wanted to update you on that. Thanks. Okay.

Did you have a response to that, Dr. Scala? Scala?

No. Okay, um, I actually had a question about, um, I see your, uh, on your resume here, which we've, we've received— thank you for that— you said AI-assisted application, Your Saint Reveal, revealed for launch June 2026. Could you describe what that is? Yeah, my, my, uh, my wife decided to join the Catholic Church last year, and in January they said that Hey, you need to have a patron saint if you're going to become a Catholic. And so I said, well, how many patron saints are there?

And it turns out there's between 11,000 and 12,000 patron saints. And then I asked the next question, well, how does one go about picking a patron saint? And nobody actually knows, which didn't really seem very scientific to me, and it didn't really seem as if everybody would have an equal shot at trying to figure out how they could create the greatest alignment between themselves and what they desired. And so I created a program, an AI-assisted program, that acts— asks a series of 20 questions about who a person is, where they've been, and where they believe they need to go, and then to take keywords out of their answers and to try and create the greatest alignment between those keywords and the attributes of a particular patron saint. And so it ended up being a mechanism for refining the alignment process so that people would not just pick 100 patron saints out of 11,000 or 12,000.

It didn't seem to me like a very good way of doing it. So if there are 1.422 billion Catholics in the world, maybe they'll have an opportunity to look at a little bit greater world than just this diminished pool of about 100 that actually get selected on a regular basis. Very good. Interesting. Thank you, Dr. Scala.

Senator Clayman, you had a question? Just a quick follow-up on the app questions that the chair has asked you about. Is the app a money-making project on your part or something more out of curiosity that you'll put on the internet for anyone interested? I'm not sure yet. I mean, it's not really— it just requires time to dedicate to the refinement of an app.

And I guess the place where I've been using it mostly is in these— is for the kids that are trying to go through this so that they would have an opportunity to do it. And I don't charge them anything. I've already done a number of prototyping days. So I know that it creates a profound experience for the people who are using it, and I'm not sure whether or not it's something that I should monetize because it's something that is being done to facilitate a spiritual transcendence. And I've got plenty of other opportunities to create apps that would be for-profit only.

So I guess to honestly answer you, I guess I would charge only enough to cover costs of hosting the app itself. But I'm sure somebody will figure out how to make money on it. Seems to be the way of the world. Okay. Follow-up, Senator.

You said your wife joined— was joining the Catholic Church. Are you already a member? She's joining and you're not a member? Oh no, I'm already Catholic. Okay.

And then separately, In looking at your current practice, it lists family medicine and diabetes, but your resume shows a lot of interest in diabetes.

Does your practice— if I had a percentage of your patients, are you mostly seeing patients that come to see you for diabetes, or are you largely more of a more general family practice? I created Alaska's first diabetes, blood pressure, and cholesterol clinic back in 2005. It was actually born out of my practice experience in rural Ohio that there was, you know, 50% of Americans are gonna die from cardiometabolic disease, so sugar, pressure, cholesterol-associated problems. So I figured I'd better get really good at 'em, and I just saw the same absence of expertise that I saw in rural Ohio. I thought I could just come up here, practice with my dad, and start offering that opportunity for people to find somebody in one clinic who is interested in the reasons that about 50% of Americans died.

So I do practice with a preference for sugar, pressure, and cholesterol problems, and if I had to look at today's list, I would say it's about— now today's list, it's about 50/50 of the patients have diabetes versus typical family practice concerns. And I, am I correct that this is your, you, this is your first appointment to the Medical Board? Yes, sir. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you.

Um, Senator Tobin. Uh, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And again, Dr. Skala, I appreciate your answers. I'm going to ask you another, as again I'm looking at the, the membership of the State Medical Board and I noticed that outside of the public member, there are no other women who have been currently appointed or up for confirmation.

And so I'm curious about your experience in obstetrics and women's health and sexual health, understanding that this is 50% of our population and there are providers that will need good, competent, quality oversight from the State Medical Board. So I'm curious about your experience in that area. I think you're going to see a massive demographic shift. If demography is destiny, And if 50% of the entrants into medical school are female, I think you're just going to see an absolute, you know, balancing of the membership. It's just you're seeing the— I guess you're just seeing the continuation right now of what was pretty normal 30 or 40 or 50 years ago where women didn't go into medicine as often as they do now.

And I think that right after me you're going to be interviewing female doctor for a board appointment and confirmation. So I think you'll be pleasantly surprised to find that there are going to be more and more females present on that board.

Follow-up, Senator Tobin. Thank you, thank you, Dr. Scully. I appreciate that. My question, and I apologize if it was unclear, what is your experience with obstetrics and with women's health, and how will you ensure that you're providing competent and quality oversight of physicians in those practices? Oh, yeah, I guess, uh, yeah, I did a lot of obstetrics and gynecology when I was in the earlier parts of my practice for probably the first, oh, 6 or 7 years.

So, you know, I was, I was there at the bedside delivering their babies and taking care of those patients and their children. And it's only been since about 2005 that I've shifted the focus towards diabetics, but I don't see whereas there's anything but a 50/50 split in the diabetic population that I have, and I don't— I guess I don't really understand the tenor of the question as it relates to women's health. I think that that's something that every family practice physician— it's something with which all of them are intimately familiar. So I think there is a balancing act that everybody has to have in order to serve that population of your practice. Does that answer your question?

[Speaker:COMMISSIONER ARKOOSH] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Not quite. I'm curious about the— the State Medical Board provides investigations and oversight over folks in a variety of different practices. And again, as I'm looking at the makeup of the State Medical Board, I'm noticing some significant gaps in knowledge and experience an understanding about the diversity and complexity of medical practice in the state.

And so my question to you is, what will you do to fill the gaps that you have in your knowledge base? How will you ensure that you're providing quality oversight over folks who are in different practices that you may not have deep familiarity with, or with populations that you have not been exposed to? Well, I mean, I guess the— I would go back to the Board's core mission: protect the public. By making sure that we have licensed qualified physicians, PAs, other providers. And I guess that, you know, I guess if I'm hearing you correctly, you're looking for somebody that has a particularly unique or a perspective on female practice or females practicing or females within their population.

I mean, I serve 50% female population. I guess that's something that is just— it's normal to serve the female portion of my population. If it's about board representation, like I said, I think that's going to just change as a matter of fact. Like, men aren't going into medicine like they used to. And I guess there's nothing I can bring to the table that's going to be particularly unique as a man accept the same compassion or empathy or understanding that I provide for my patients on an everyday basis.

Well, thank you, Dr. Scala. I think what I was looking for was areas where I might be light in understanding information. I would work with community stakeholders. I would talk with different medical associations and practicing physicians to understand their particular insights so that I can provide competent oversight We all have, as my dad calls them, donut holes, and it does require us to reach out to experts outside of our comfort level to understand and ensure that we are providing that quality support for those particular practices. Oh, good.

Yeah. Yep. I would consider that— that to me just seems like a normal part of practice. Maybe that's why I wasn't as sure about the tenor of the question. Yeah, I agree.

Thank you. Um, so I have two, two questions, Dr. Scala. The first is, you said practice with my dad. Does that mean your father is a, a, a doctor as well, or did you mean practice on your dad? Okay, so no, no, no, my dad was a physician here in Alaska, so I guess my, my introduction to medicine has been some from the time I was a kid, kind of following him around and and I mean like legitimately making real house calls.

And, uh, you know, maybe, maybe in terms of those collegial aspects of medicine, uh, you know, my introduction to medicine was hanging out with all of my dad's colleagues and doing, you know, grand rounds as a teenager before I was even in college, let alone medical school. And, uh, and so Yes, my dad was a physician here from, I would say, probably the middle '70s up until 2018. Thank you. So my last question, last year, the State Medical Board took a fairly unusual step, and going back to Senator Tobin's question, no one on the board had sort of a relevant medical background on the topic, but the board voted for a draft regulation having to do with gender-affirming care. I was wondering if you are familiar with that action and what your thoughts are on that action by the board.

Well, I guess I, I don't know. I don't— I'm not familiar with the action. And I guess I'm not familiar with the case that they were taking up, so I don't really have a great— I don't have a great answer for you, because I don't know what it was that they were considering. Very good. So, I'm not going to weigh in on them.

Very good. Well, the interesting thing was there was no case. They made basically a recommended draft regulation having to do with unprofessional conduct without a case before them, and so that was an unusual action by the board. But if you're not familiar with it—. What was their justification for doing that?

I—. You know what, you'll have to ask them. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

I'm about to find out. Yes. Thank you, Dr. Scala. Okay. Are there any further questions for this appointee?

All right. Thank you, Dr. Scala. We appreciate your time. It looks like he's already— I think maybe— oh, there he is. Thank you, Dr. Scala, for your time.

And, um, yeah, we appreciate your testimony. We'll move on now to Miss, uh, Hannah or Hannah Milkey. Um, if, uh, Miss Milkey, if you could please put your name, uh, uh, state your name for the record and begin your testimony. Thank you so much for having me. My name is Hannah Milkey and I'm a lifelong Alaskan I'm interested in serving on the State Medical Board because I see it as a great opportunity for public service.

I know how important public health and safety is in our state, and I'm just looking forward to learning more and doing what I can to serve Alaskans through this position. I also believe I would offer a unique perspective on the board as a young female Alaskan who cares greatly about the bettering of our great state.

Very good. Are there any questions? I'll start. So, Ms. Mielke, and I apologize if I'm not pronouncing that correctly, what do you see as the primary challenges for the board going forward?

Thank you so much for your question. As for primary issues going forward, It's amazing that right now we do have a full board, but I do think that one of the issues that the medical board has faced, just based off of information I've gathered so far, is maintaining a full board and stability of members. If you don't have a full board, it's hard to make sure that we're helping Alaskans, and so I see that as an advantage that right now we do have a full board, and I look forward to partnering participating and further, furthering helping Alaskans. We have a question from Senator Tobin. Uh, thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, uh, and thank you, Miss Milkey, for, for stepping up. Uh, I just, I want to just make a quick note, as you mentioned public health in your opening remarks, and, uh, while I also share that deep concern about public health, uh, the State Medical Board provides oversight for medical practitioners, which is just a little bit of a different tenor and what their, their focus and their oversight responsibilities are. But I'm curious, I see here that you graduated high school in 2025. Is that accurate? And can I ask which high school did you graduate from?

Yes, that is accurate, and I was homeschooled. Very good.

Other questions for this? Senator Clayman. Just a couple of questions. I'm recognizing you haven't gone to college at this point, but do you have, for example, a CPR card?

Uh, thank you so much for your question. Uh, no, I have not done a CPR class. One of the requirements to be a public member for the Medical Board is that I'm not affiliated with the medical industry, so I do not have any medical training. However, I do have a passion to help Alaskans and to serve Thank you. And, and again, because I'm curious, because you're from the Palmer-Wasilla area, I know there's been some discussion in Palmer-Wasilla about— I think at one point they had a high school person from high school that was serving as a non-voting person on the school board and as what would be probably the youngest member of the state medical board.

What's your perspective about having a high school member on this, on the school board? And how— that'd be— that's my first question.

I'm sorry, could you repeat that? I thought you mentioned— did you say school board? Right, on the, on the Matsu School Board, they had a student on the school board, and then they changed the rules and said we don't want any students on the school board anymore. What do you think about them taking the student off the school board?

Okay, I was not aware of that situation. Well, I'll ask the question a little differently. Do you think it's a good thing to have students on the school board?

I'm not quite sure how that relates to my position on the medical board. Um, yeah, as for my opinion on whether we should have students on the school board, as I stated, I'm I wasn't aware of that situation, so I don't necessarily have an opinion on that.

Yeah, but I mean, yeah, I wasn't aware of that situation. [Speaker] Okay. The reason I asked the question about the school board is because my prediction is at 19, you'll be one of the youngest folks serving on the state medical board, and you'll be serving on with lots of doctors like Dr. Scala that just testified at least based on when he graduated, when he finished medical school, he's probably in his late 40s or early 50s, and others that we've already interviewed. So you'd, I think, without question, be the youngest person on the state medical board. How, how do you feel you'd be able to, to interact with these folks that have, have been a lot, been to lots of school and practicing medicine a long time in your role as, as the public member who's, who's quite young?

And I certainly admire your willingness to step up at this age.

Thank you so much for your question. I see my age as an advantage serving as a public member on the Medical Board. As I stated earlier, I am required to not be affiliated with the medical industry, so that already gives me an advantage in advocating for Alaskans. As an Alaskan myself. And then also, as for my age, I think it is an advantage in that I can look to the interests of younger Alaskans as well and advocate for Alaskans in my generation.

And then I'm not sure if I'd mentioned this yet, but I will be the only woman on the board as well. So looking forward to bringing a unique perspective to the team and also looking forward to working with the others on the board. Thank you very much. Thank you, Senator Clayman. Senator Kieft.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, Ms. Milkey, the service on the board is in regulating physicians, physicians and physician assistants. So you're not really advocating for Alaskans. What you're doing is examining the clinical practice of physicians and physician assistants, and determining if they are practicing within the accepted scope of practice and standards of care. So that might be something you would want to contemplate as you enter into this.

It's not advocating for Alaskans and Alaskan kids. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Senator Giesel. Senator Tobin has a question. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

And, uh, Ms. Bilkey, I'm curious, uh, from your background and your experience, can you talk about a time when you had to engage in investigation of, uh, just investigative practices, and that resulted in a disciplinary action against, uh, an individual or another entity or in a group that you were a member of?

Yeah, I'm not sure if I've entered a specific situation like that before. However, our next board meeting is coming up next week, and we do have a lot of detailed information. And so the type of work I would be doing is reviewing the information and making decisions based off of that. It's pretty black and white. Um, yeah, I apologize if my wording was incorrect earlier.

But yeah, looking forward to reviewing the information gathered and then making decisions that are best for Alaskans based off of the information gathered and what the law says as well. Senator Tobin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you, Ms. Milky. That's, that's helpful.

I'm unsure if you've read through the Commerce of Alaska's statutory guidelines for physicians and for DOs and for physician assistants. And also the requirements around qualifications, the regulatory packages, the dynamics of scope of practice and standards of care are not necessarily outlined in statute, and they are often established by medical academies and associations. It is sometimes a bit unclear about whether a physician was operating underneath the appropriate scope of practice and within their scope of licensure and within their standards of care. So with that being provided— that information being provided to you here, how would you take the information that you'll be provided next week and evaluate it based on your best— your knowledge of best practices, of best insight of how someone might be evaluating care to an Alaskan, and then move forward with a recommendation that may be disciplinary in nature? Can you just kind of walk us through your decision-making rubric or how you developed that rubric over time.

Yeah, thank you for your question. I was appointed to the board one week ago, so I haven't had the opportunity to walk through information gathered and make decisions based off of the information. I have had the chance to look over some of the, a lot of the information for our upcoming meeting, some of the documents documents regarding the doctors that we will be discussing. And they are very detailed documents. And so I think one benefit that I have is I do love to work hard, and when I set my mind on something, I do work hard to accomplish it.

So I look forward to reviewing all the documents and just working hard to making sure I'm looking at all sides of the issues and all the information gathered. Before making a decision. And then we are a board as well, so listening to, uh, the insight of the other board members will be very helpful as well.

Thank you. Um, so I, I asked the prior person, I asked most people about interesting things on their resume. Um, you have, uh, here TeenPACT Leadership Schools. Can you describe what, what that is and What is the PACT? Who is the PACT between?

And what, what is that? What is that organization sort of— what do they do exactly? Yeah, thank you for your question. Uh, Teen PACT Leadership Schools is a nonprofit, nonprofit Christian government organization. Um, I have served with them for 3 years now.

Uh, they provide week-long classes for teenagers with the goal of teaching youth to understand the political process, defend the Christian faith, engage the culture at a time in their lives when typically they don't care about such things. So we encourage youth to get involved in their government. We don't necessarily teach them what political views to view, but more so emphasizing the importance of being involved in government even at a young age. So one of the things I did while volunteering for that organization was help facilitate classes in Alaska, and then I also had the opportunity to travel to a couple other states as well where we met in state capitals and trained the youth in those areas.

Okay. All right. I think that's enough. Anyone else? Questions?

Questions? Okay. All right. Well, thank you, Ms. Milkey, for your testimony. And yeah, thank you for being with us today.

Now, I forgot last time, I forgot to read the words. Public testimony. Oh, yes. Thank you, Madam Vice Chair. So next, we will open public testimony on these two appointees.

Is there anyone in the room who would wish to Wishes to testify? Seeing no one. Is there anyone online? Don't see anyone. This time we will close public testimony.

In accordance with AS 39.05.080, the Senate Health and Social Services Committee has reviewed and recommends that the following list of appointees be forwarded to a joint session for consideration: Robert Scala, State Medical Board and Hannah Milkey, State Medical Board. As a reminder, signing the committee report does not reflect individual members' approval or disapproval of the nomination. If members would please stay after to sign the paperwork. For announcements today, our previously scheduled meeting for Thursday, May 7th, will be canceled due to a lack of, lack of legislation. At this time, we anticipate this will be our final hearing of the session pending any additional appointees or legislation that may transmitted from the other body.

So thank you everyone for a productive hearing. The time is 4:24, and this hearing is adjourned.