Alaska Peninsula / Aleutian Island / Chignik Finfish (2/19/2026)

Yes, so it's on.

All right, good morning everybody. Apologize for our tardy start today, but we wanted to make sure that members had the chance to read the recent batch of RCs, especially as it relates to ethics disclosures this morning. So we're going to kick off with that today, and in that vein, we're going to— I'm going to go ahead and hand I turn the gavel over to Vice Chair Carpenter. Mr. Carpenter. Thank you, Madam Chair.

So we are going to do things a little bit differently today. The chair is going to put her ethics statement on the record, and then we will look to the board for questions and proceed from there. So, Ms. Carlson-Edort, would you please put your ethics disclosure on the record? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For the record, my name is Marit Carlson Van Dorth.

I was born and raised in Alaska and I reside in Anchorage. I am currently employed as the president and chief executive officer of Far West Incorporated, which is the village corporation for Chignik Bay formed under the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act. I am also a shareholder in Bristol Bay Native Corporation and in Koniag, and I am a member of the Native Village of Chignik Bay, the tribe. I purchased resident sport fish licensing. I receive State of Alaska Permanent Fund dividend, and I will receive a stipend for my service on this board.

Mr. Chairman, neither I, members of my immediate family, nor my employer have a financial interest in fisheries. Similarly, neither I, members of my immediate family, nor my employer are involved with any lawsuits with the State of Alaska, the Alaska Department of Fish and Game, or the Board of Fisheries. For disclosure, my aunt's permit— my aunt's husband once held a Chignik SANE permit. A cousin of mine does hold a current Chignik SANE permit.

A cousin also submitted proposal number 120, and the Chignik Intertribal Coalition submitted proposals 126, 130, 151, and 152. Mr. Chairman, a cousin does not meet the definition of immediate family member as defined in the state's Ethics Act. I have confirmed that the Native Village of Chignik Bay had no role in the drafting or approval of any of the CITC proposals. I do not know how large their membership is, nor have I ever attended any of their membership meetings. Far West has collaborated with the tribe in the past related to grant application support and community planning and climate change mitigation efforts.

In 2018, Far West Inc. took a position with respect to an emergency petition before the board affecting fisheries in the Chignik Management Area. This was prior to my appointment to the board. Nothing has materially changed since that ethics disclosure I made, which was reviewed by my ethics supervisor on Proposal 282. I.e., there was no financial interest that Far West holds, and there could be considered a personal interest which this board must determine whether or not is material or substantial. And I would, um, ask the board to please reference RC 28 and RC 29 from this morning.

I contend that no personal interest exists or is minimal at best. Again, Far West derives no income nor has any investment in fisheries. The bulk of Far West income is from federal government contracting, primarily with the Department of Defense, supplemented by income from ANSCA revenue sharing provisions, a guided hunting access agreement, and some room and apartment rentals. None of my performance or employment metrics have anything to do with my service on this board. FWI has neither submitted nor taken a position on any of the proposals before this board at this meeting, nor any since 2018, which again was prior to my service on the board.

The large majority of FWI's roughly 550 shareholders live in Southcentral Alaska and Kodiak and no longer reside in or return to Chignik Bay. Based on the legal guidance I have received in the prior ethics determination I've referenced, I believe that there exists no conflict of interest. Mr. Chairman, I would also note that previous and recent boards have agreed regarding Proposal 282. The board voted 5 to 1 that there was no conflict in 2022. In 2023, there were no objections to the ruling of no conflict, and I chaired and fully participated in the last Aleutians Islands, Alaska Peninsula, and Chignik Fin Fish meeting.

Mr. Chairman, this information is true, correct, and complete to the best of my knowledge. Thank you, Ms. Carlson-Vandort. I'm going to open the— if anyone on the board would like to ask Ms. Carlson-Vandort a question, I will open that up at this time. Mr. Wood. Yeah, thank you.

I just want to say I appreciate somebody having a longer ethics disclosure than mine in Cook Inlet. Very thorough. The other one I'd like to say is RC 28 and reading through that. It sounded very familiar to the same Attorney General ruling that I had 3 years ago. And I— and having had experience with that, I would just like to pull out some of the quotes from both yours and mine that says in Section 39.52.110, in a representative democracy, the representatives are drawn from society and therefore cannot and should not be without personal and financial interests in decisions and policies of the government.

And the standards of the ethics conduct for members of the executive branch needs to distinguish between those minor and inconsequential conflicts that are unavoidable in a free society and those conflicts of interest that are substantial and material. And I think one thing that comes out in the— in number RC-028 is under the Ethics Act, there is no substantial impropriety where a public officer's personal and financial interest in the matter is insignificant, or when the action and influence would have an insignificant or conjectural effect on the matter. So I think there's a big difference between significant and insignificant, which I've come to appreciate in, in these ethics disclosures. For the sake of my own consistency, I'd like to acknowledge that it's important to know what is significant and what is insignificant. And give that person the benefit of the doubt.

Um, and with that, I'd say therefore the Ethics Act speaks principally to actual substantial conflicts of interest and not just the appearance of conflicts alone. That being said, I want to say that it's written right here that the act mandates that public officers conduct public business in a manner that preserves the integrity of the governmental process and avoids conflicts of, of, of interest. And I think with this board in particular, in this letter that we received, that is probably the largest issue at play here. And so I think that in the decisions that made, that are made by this board, be scrutinized heavily based on, on facts and truth rather than just the appearance. Of, of, um, supposition.

That said, I do have one question for Ms. Carlson-Vandort. Is your employer authorizing you paid leave while you are here attending these meetings? So I take community benefit leave, which is a sort of a leave classification that is offered to all employees that are serving, you know, jury duty or some things like that. But I do take leave, yes.

Thank you.

Uh, Mr. Irwin. Thank you, um, Member Carlson-Vandort. Since the last board ruling in 2023 with the Area M meeting, um, has your role or position changed at Far West in any manner that could put you in a new position of conflict? No. Thank you.

Any further questions from anyone on the board?

Okay.

I was going to say a lot of what Mr. Wood said. I think the document that's presented in RC 28 lays out the question that arose specifically in a letter that was sent to the Department of Law and was also received by the board in regards to specific conflict issues. I'm very— I have a very clear understanding that the opinion that the Department of Law gave in the past to Ms. Carlson-Vandork, Vandork, and the position that the department has, law has now changed. And so I'll just leave it at that for now. And so Usually the vice chair would make a ruling on whether the chair has a conflict of interest, but in— from direction from the Department of Law in this particular instance, just to provide the public with the most transparency that we possibly can, I'm going to call roll call on the vote to see if each board member thinks that Ms. Carlson-Vandort has a conflict or not.

And that's really the question that we are answering right now. So having said that, I will ask one more time if anyone has any questions. And if there is not, Director Nelson, would you please call the roll call vote on does Ms. Carlson-Endort have a conflict or not with proposals that are before the board at this meeting? Excuse me. Yes, go ahead, Mr. Lee.

Yes, so thank you, Member Carpenter. I just want to note both to ensure it's clear on the public record that what's going on right now doesn't deviate from Alaska statute. This deviates from the typical board process of how this goes. But this, again, this is absolutely pursuant to statute. And it was by an opinion of the AG that the board take this process this morning.

I also want to note that all board members are presumed to not have a conflict. And so that's the standard that you're working with. And so in this vote, How the question is posed to the Board and the vote is material. And I see Commissioner has a—. He's—.

Mr. Carpenter. Thank you, Mr. Lee. So just to be clear, Commissioner? Yeah. I'm a little bit confused by the vote here because the vote will be full participation in this meeting or will it be on a set of proposals?

That will be deliberated at the meeting? Because usually this discussion occurs around a set of proposals versus the entire slate of proposals for the meeting. [Speaker:JOHN_MILLER] If I may. Yeah, that's a good question, Commissioner. So it is—.

In the Executive Branch Ethics Act, it states for matters that for the purposes of the board is synonymous and interchangeable with proposals. So it is a proposal-by-proposal basis. Generally, there's only one finding ethics determination when we go about this in other meetings where issues like this don't come up. But for the purpose, unless a board member raises objections to certain proposals, I don't see any problem going forward with a blanket vote. And I will also note that if.

Members have problems with certain proposals, they can bring those up and we can take up that vote separately. Thank you.

Any further questions? Mr. Godfrey.

So I don't— reading the RC 28, it's, it's pretty difficult. I prefer, like Board Member Woods said, that we be consistent, transparent, and And we have a standard that we adhere to. In my service on the board, my prior term, and I've said this before on the record, 3 different board members in one meeting were all conflicted on 3 different sets of proposals, and all 3 of us went about recusing ourselves in a different way without any clear guidance other than not actually voting during the deliberations, which all 3 of us did. Because the Department of Law has issued this opinion, uh, in pretty great detail here, I would— it would have to be pretty egregiously off the mark for me to overrule the Department of Law for the sake of consistency and the precedent. They've cited matters back in the early '90s in their analysis here.

So with that, I will end up voting in support of full participation, but I do appreciate and want it to be clear to the Department of Law this type of analysis is extremely instructive for this board member, and appreciate that moving forward. Thank you, Mr. Godfrey. Anything further? Director Nelson, will you please call the roll?

Excuse me, Mr. Lee. Mr. Carpenter, I just want to note on Member Godfrey's comment that the RC language, that is an opinion that was specific to the proposal at issue at that time. It can be instructive, informative for the board members, but I just want to rein in that the scope of that applied to the 2022-2023 issue at hand.

Because I can't. Thank you for that, Mr. Lee. I think, yeah, Ms. Carlson-McDort, if you would like to speak to proposals that are directly going to be taken up this meeting and kind of lay that out in regards to the conflict or not, that would probably be good to put on the record. Okay, happily I can do that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

So in the letter that was RC'd yesterday, I think it was the United Tribes of Unga letter, they reference a handful of proposals beginning with proposal number 120. Proposal 120 would reduce the area for our season for area M stainers under the sediment management plan. It is the Department of Law's opinion that the proposal is purely allocated and is similar to the proposal 282 as discussed in the 2023 ethics opinion. With regard to proposal number 126 submitted by the Chignik Intertribal Coalition, that would redraw the subdistrict boundaries existing entirely within the area M and add subdistrict to sediment management plan. This proposal only reallocates resources within Area M while adding the subdistrict to the setum, will potentially help fish migration into Area L. This proposal's benefit for Area L is minimal and or already in effect.

With regard to Proposal 130 that was submitted by the Chignik Intertribal Coalition, this proposal is purely allocative and similar to the Proposal 282 discussed in the 2023 ethics opinion. With respect to proposal number 131 that was submitted by the BSFA, also similar to proposal 130 but includes reduction of fishing area. This proposal is also purely allocative and similar to proposal 282 discussed in the 2023 ethics opinion. Proposal number 133 submitted by the Chignik AC. This would reduce fishing time in Area M under the South Unimak and Shumagin Islands June Management Plan.

Again, allocative and very similar to proposal 282 discussed in the 2023 ethics opinion. Proposal number 140 would reduce fishing time— sorry, 141 would reduce fishing time and enforce king caps under the Post-June South Peninsula Management Plan. This is also allocative and is similar to proposal 282 discussed in my 2023 ethics opinion. Proposal number 148 would require South Peninsula seiners to reduce gear to be consistent with restrictions for Chignik, Kodiak, Prince William Sound, and Cook Inlet seiners. It cites declining chum stocks but would theoretically increase fish migration into Area L. It's kind of an awkward fit.

Proposal number 151 reduces gear limits for South Peninsula setnetters. Gear reduction would theoretically increase fish migration into Area L. And proposal 152 would reduce gear limits for South Peninsula seiners. Again, gear reduction could theoretically increase fish migration into Area L. And those are the ones that I believe were referenced in the letter. Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Ms. Carlson-Endorf, for putting that and making it clear on the record.

Any other questions?

Director Nelson, please call the roll.

So just to clarify on the roll call here, a yes vote would be to find a conflict and a no vote would be, I guess, with the presumption of no conflict that they are— That each member does not find that there is a conflict. Godfrey. Nope. Wood. No.

Chamberlain. No. Erwin. No. Carpenter.

No. Svendsen. No. That vote is 0-6, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Director Nelson. And having completed that, Ms. Carlsmendot, I will gladly hand the gavel back to you. I can't wait till it's your turn. Thank you, Mr. Carpenter. Appreciate you walking us through that sort of extraordinary process.

Appreciate it. Let's go ahead and continue on with ethics disclosures, beginning with Ms. Erwin.

Thank you, Madam Chair. My name is Olivia Henahi Erwin. I live in Nenana, Alaska. I am a Doyon Corporation shareholder and receive a dividend each year. I am also an Evansville Native Corporation shareholder and receive a dividend each year for that, both formed under the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act.

I am currently unemployed. My last day as the community liaison at the Yukon River Drainage Fisheries Association was January 30th, 2026. Since the matter of my departure has been raised publicly by the Onga Tribal Council in RC-004, I want to clarify that my decision was based on personal and professional considerations. I have interests and goals outside of fisheries that I intend to pursue, and it was not feasible for me to do so while working full-time and serving effectively on my role on this board. My departure from YRTFA was not an attempt to avoid a conflict of interest, and I remain committed to serving in my role with integrity and in alignment with the ethics policy.

I received an honorarium from the University of Alaska Fairbanks this year for guest lecturing. I will receive a stipend for my service on the Board of Fisheries. Prior to my time on this board, I operated an Alaska business license for High Impact LLC. That is no longer active. My license has been inactive since December of 2025, and I have not had a client since 2024.

I have a resident hunt, fish, sport, and trapping license. However, I have not participated in any of the fisheries being addressed at this meeting. My immediate family consists of my 4 siblings, only one of whom resides in Alaska, along with 2 aunts and 4 uncles who also reside in Alaska, none of whom are currently involved in fisheries work or business. My Aunt Marie Monroe retains 2 commercial fishing permits for the Tanana River net and fish wheel, However, she has not fished the permit or financially benefited since 1993. Neither I nor any member of my immediate family nor my employer— I have no employer— have any affiliation with any business or Fish and Wildlife organizations that may be affected by the proposals before us.

No member of my immediate family or myself are involved in any lawsuits against the state, the department, or the Board of Fisheries. I certify that this disclosure statement is true and correct to the complete best of my knowledge, Madam Chair. Thank you, Miss Irwin. Questions? Mr.

Wooden and Mr. Godfrey. Yeah, thank you, Member Irwin. In the last year leading up to this board cycle, did you take part in, at any level, of having say into the proposals that are before us and writing them, giving recommendations or deliberation of any kind as they were being written? No, I did not. My position from policy coordinator changed in September of 2025, so I have not I have divested myself completely of all fisheries politics.

Lastly, do you have, uh, when your term of, um, is over, do you plan on going back to work, um, for the organization that you just, um, resigned from? I do not at this time.

Mr. Godfrey. Yeah, Board Member Irwin, could you restate your aunt's permit? I mean, the nature of that permit, is that a commercial permit and for what fishery, if so? Yeah, thank you, Mr. Godfrey. So, uh, my Aunt Marie Monroe lives in Ninana, Alaska.

She owns 2 commercial fishing permits for the Tanana River. They are net and fish wheel for salmon. She has not personally benefited financially since 1993. In 1992, my uncle passed away who operated the permit with her, and she's kind of just continued to hold on to it as a, as a memento. So there's no no intention of, of continuing to, to fish that permit.

So my next question is, did the Department of Law give you explicit direction that you do.

Not or would not have a conflict in light of that?

No, no formal opinion has been given to me. I would pose this question to the Department of Law. If an aunt holds a permit that ostensibly could increase in value given proposals in front of us, has the department analyzed that? Uh, Member Gauthier, through the Chair, um, not necessarily. Uh, I just want to preface this with I personally, as the board's agency attorney, don't make ethics determinations.

The AG in the legal opinions referenced for Member Carlson-Vandort were actually prepared by someone other than me. And that's siloed off pursuant just to keep conflicts out of that process. Insofar as Member Erwin's aunt, unlike Member Carlson-Vandort's cousin, an aunt is statutorily a conflict. And I do believe this same issue may have come up at the AYK meeting, um, that was addressed there. But to answer your ultimate question, no, um, Department of Law has not weighed in on whether or not there's a financial interest here, or a conflict here rather, um, and I'll leave it at that.

So it seems to me that there should be an analysis, or there should have been an analysis offered And then the Department of Law should have looked at that because statutorily, an aunt and uncle would be disqualifying if there was an ostensible economic benefit or increase in value of the permit down the line based on decisions made here. So I'm not sure. That's an example of what I'm talking about, inconsistency here. My very first term on the board, I had an uncle who'd been sitting on an original limited issue permit. For years and years and years and did nothing with it.

And there was a suite of proposals in front of us at the time. So that's— I want to get that on the record. I'm not sure why an opinion wasn't issued. And if the argument from the department is, okay, if certain proposals were adopted, that would create perhaps an economic increase in value to the permits, but it would be de minimis. That would be nice to know too, so as we had a standard moving forward.

But that's it.

Other questions? Mr. Wood.

Yeah, thank you. Um, I respect Member Godfrey's, um, take on the situation, but I have participated in deliberations as a permit holder, and even though I recuse myself of ones that might have a significant impact on my business as opposed to insignificant. And I believe that there is nothing before us that will have a significant impact on Ms. Erwin's aunt's fish wheel, commercial fish wheel. In fact, it probably is a lower cost— probably lower in cost as far as CFEC, Commercial Fish and Entry Commission, has than a Cook Inlet setnet permit. And I might ask, where is that fish wheel now?

Of Ms. Irwin. Yeah, thank you, Member Wood. That fish wheel is dilapidated and falling into the ground in her front yard.

Mr. Godfrey. And I acknowledge what Board Member Wood just said, and I do not disagree. My point here is that the Department of Law, the Board of Fish, should be developing a record on these things and not just ignore it because it may be insignificant so that we could develop precedent that's guiding moving forward. Because by statute the permit is held. So a determination should be made by the Department of Law on matters such as this and say insignificant, immaterial, not substantive, fine.

I think for the sake of the board's, the faith of the public in transparency, consistency, we need to develop precedents in a record when possible and adhere to that moving forward. Thank you. I appreciate those comments, both Member Wood and Mr. Godfrey. Do you have a question, Mr. Wood? No.

Okay. So, and I don't disagree with you. I think that there needs to be some consistency, and I have long advocated for that in terms of the guidance that I seek in the decision-making. So as the chair of this board, it is my task to determine whether or not a conflict exists or not. At times I do reach out to the guidance of the law, but the, the, the law, the Department of Law has largely deferred to the powers of this board in that this needs to be ultimately a decision made by the board.

That being said, as I look at these issues, I have tried to overlay some consistency in how I've approached them. I acknowledge that Miss Irwin does have a permit, or an aunt that has a permit. There is a distinctive line for me in the fact that that permit is not held in the areas under consideration, so it is held in Tanana. Mr. Irwin, how far away from the mouth of the of the Yukon River is your Ants Fish or setnet site?

Roughly, how far is the Tanana River from—. Maybe roughly 1,000 river miles. Okay. And then you add, again, this is a similar discussion that we had at the last Area M with respect to Mr. Zarey, because he also had a fish permit up there that he hadn't actively been fishing and had— I think he referenced in the negatives in terms of what it was costing him to, to harvest. He was operating in the red.

And I recognize that that was— I don't know, doing some back of the napkin math— probably 1,400, 1,500 miles away. And I think that if we're going to extend ethics determinations to permits held outside of regions particularly that far away, we would be extending, you know, to all areas of the state of Alaska potentially. And I don't I don't think that that is in the spirit of which this board was formed and people on this board are appointed. But I agree with you. And so for me, as I look at it, I'm looking at whether or not there is a permit held in the area in which we are considering, and then whether or not there is a substantial or material investment is for this board to debate and vote on.

And that's what has occurred with Mr. Wood and Cook Inlet and I'm trying to remember, harken back to what happened with yours in Kodiak. Yeah, I don't— I wasn't chairing at that time. I think I was brand new on the board. Yeah, so I just kind of wanted to throw that out there. That's the lens that I'm looking at it through for consistency.

I don't know if that's helpful or not. Mr. Carpenter. Thank you, Madam Chair. Miss Erwin, you stated— I believe Mr. Wood asked you a question if you had any direct impact on any proposals that are before the board, and you're I guess my question is, in your former position that you held until the end of January, I guess, of this, of this year, were you involved in the, in the aspects of fisheries policy? Did you lead fisheries policy meetings?

Did you have any involvement? I understand the organization you work for doesn't directly have a proposal before us now, but can you maybe speak to the involvement that you had specific to fisheries policy and in the development of ideas within your organization that might have a direct impact on the proposals before us?

Yeah, thank you, Mr. Carpenter. So in my prior role, my role prior to getting my service on this board, when I was the policy coordinator for, for the Yukon River Drainage Fisheries Association, I was at that time involved in advising and and attending meetings and other, other things such as North Pacific Fisheries Management Council and different management bodies, understanding and interpreting what, what was happening within the fisheries. However, during my service on this board, I have only served within the community liaison role, in which I was not advising policies and divested myself completely from the policies of fisheries. I was serving in a role of going into communities, hosting community meetings to, to hear from the public on, on what they were seeing in terms of their fishing in the summer, listening to the matters that were coming up before them and simply providing a space for community members to share observations that they were seeing within their fishing, their fishing time. So no policy-related efforts were made during my service on this board.

[Speaker] Thank you for that. One more question. So speaking to your consulting business, High Impact, and you said you let your business license lapse, I believe, in December of 2025. But prior to that, while the proposals were unable to be put in for this particular meeting. Was there any organization that either has a proposal before us that you— that they were a client of yours that you could have derived any income from?

So my only client that I had from February of 2024 September of 2024 was Tanana Chiefs Conference, where I participated in the Board of Game.

Process and wood bison issues. I did not work on any fisheries-related work at that time, and I was not involved in any, uh, the creation of any policy proposals or advising of any kind on, on board State Board of Fish or any other fisheries work. Okay, thank you. And just, just to make it clear, you know, prior to you being on the board is somewhat irrelevant, but while you are on the board, I think you were appointed last July, There is no consulting work at all that was done and no money that was derived from that consulting work from any organization in the state that has a proposal before us. Am I, am I correct?

You're absolutely correct. I've only ever had one client and it was that, that Tanana Chiefs Conference for that February to September portion. I never took on another client and I have not derived any financial benefit from my business license since my final paycheck from TCC in September of 2024. For. Thank you, Mr. Wood.

Yeah, thank you. I, I would just like to— I, I think, uh, this ethics disclosure stuff is very important, so, and needs to have the, uh, a record built around it. So I just will reiterate, um, AS 39.52.01084, the act mandates that public officers conduct public business in a manner that preserves the integrity of government process and avoids conflicts of interest. I just would like to respond to the idea that the fish wheel is only 1,000 miles up the river. That, I think, is not— given the proposals that we have before us, that does matter.

I still think there's an insignificant impact to Ms. Irwin's aunt's fish wheel and her commercial business, but given the fact that these proposals are before us, it is all about that 1,000 miles. So I would just like that to be said. And in the end, it's also about the integrity of this board to make decisions that reflect science and, and, and, and the truth of things and not just mistruths. So thank you. The other questions.

All right. Well, I just kind of was glancing through this '94 Attorney General opinion and In the second paragraph, it's describing a situation which I think is kind of pertinent here, just to kind of reference. So they're talking about a state board member with a— concerning a possible conflict of interest in membership of two private corporation boards. I think that could be extended to employment easily. And the language says that in short, they believe the state board member does not possess a conflict of interest due to membership or employment should the member participate on the State Board in implementing a new state law or regulating an industry.

With respect to matters that could specifically benefit a matter different from the rest of the industry, we believe that the member would possess or possesses an impermissible conflict of interest. The pertinent part here is hypothetically, quote, hypothetically, should the member choose to resign from B or A's board, the member would be permitted to participate on the state board in all matters relating to B or A, unquote. So I see that as kind of a, um, some, some good guidance in, in terms of how we should view, um, Ms. Erwin's potential conflict. And in light of that, in light of the information that she has given us, um, and I do not believe there to be a significant or material interest, either financially or personally, held by Ms. Erwin at this time, I'm going to rule that she can fully participate in the matters before us. Is there any objection, discussion?

Okay. Let's move on. Mr. Chamberlain. Thank you, Madam Chair. My name is Curt Chamberlain.

I was raised on the Kuskokwim River. I am currently employed as Deputy General Counsel with Chalista Corporation, an Alaska Native corporation created under the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act. I currently oversee corporate governance, litigation, regulatory compliance, and general business law on behalf of the corporation. I'm a shareholder in the Kuskokwim Corporation and a shareholder descendant of the Chalista Corporation and receive distributions from the Kuskokwim Corporation each year. In each year, I have received residual income from the sale of a law firm and rental properties.

I currently own a controlling interest in Neon Law Group Incorporated, which is currently winding down and not conducting business. I will receive a stipend for my service on this board. I currently hold an Alaska hunting, fishing, and trapping license. Neither I nor my family or my employer have a financial interest in fisheries. I will elaborate further that Chalista Corporation has roughly 100 subsidiaries and over 4,000 employees, but none of the business operations are in any way related to fisheries.

They primarily focus on defense contracting, heavy civil litigation, or heavy civil construction, oilfield services, and real estate. I have no interest in any business, fish or wildlife organization that may be affected by any of the proposals or then discussed in this meeting. My father does own a commercial drift net permit for the Middle Kuskokwim that is roughly 500 miles away from the areas that we're discussing in this meeting. That commercial fishing permit hasn't been used since 1996. Speaking to the value of that commercial permit, I talked to my father about getting rid of it.

There was resistance in that because it was owned by my grandfather and inherited down the family. But at the same time, when we discussed about divesting, he says to who? No one wants it.

So neither I, any member of my immediate family, nor my employer involved in any lawsuit, or the state, the board, or the department as a party to the lawsuit. I have a personal interest. I have a small personal interest in the matters before this board, which I believe are nominal. Prior to my engagement with the board, I engaged in fisheries advocacy through Chalista, but all advocacy, including my election to my election to apply to the Board of Fisheries was permissive and not at the request of Chalista. I volunteered to do so based on my experience as a commercial subsistence and sport fisherman and belief that I could be of assistance.

Chalista also advocated in the fisheries space prior to my nomination, including advocating on matters without my knowledge or input. Since my nomination to the board, Chalista has not advocated in the regulatory framework for fisheries. Both in state and in federal areas. I've received no direction from anyone at Chalista and no employee or officer at Chalista sought to influence my opinion in any proposals before the board. None of my position— my position's performance metrics are in any way tied to any proposals before the board.

All prior positions were disclosed and discussed at length in my legislative process. In my time with Chalista, Chalista has espoused positions that were not mine, and I have done likewise. Since my nomination, Celeste has never, to my knowledge, taken any position on any proposals before the Board of Fisheries or North Pacific Fisheries Management Council. Since my nomination, Celeste has advocated for subsistence rights under state law and an amendment to the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act to restore aboriginal hunting and fishing rights for Alaska Natives. However, these positions are legislative in nature and in no way related to any proposals before the board.

Moreover, these positions were espoused long before I began my employment at Chilista, and all positions were also discussed in my legislative confirmation process. This information is true, correct, and complete to the best of my knowledge. I also want to inform that my thoughts— my full ethics disclosure was disclosed as an RC and, uh, is still in it and will be produced shortly. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chamberlain.

Questions? Mr. Wood. Yeah, thank you, Member Chamberlain. Um, I would like to ask you, uh, in 2023 October, there were two ACRs before us. ACR 2, uh, which was a Fairbanks ACR, ACR, and then there was an ACR 3 that from Western Interior Regional Advisory Council for NetDepth.

When you— I remember you because of your voice and your line that you'd rather be wearing Grundens instead of a suit. Anyhow, and I wanted to ask, during those— your testimony, were you advocating on behalf of Chalista at that time, or was it on your own behalf?

I I was advocating with the permission of Chalista, but the statements and testimony I gave were my own. They were not reviewed through Chalista or given on behalf of Chalista. To the best of my recollection, I spoke on my own behalf. I did announce that I was Deputy General Counsel for Chalista as part of my statement, but all statements I gave there were my own. And I've— and at that time, yeah.

I think that answers the question. Follow-up? Yeah, thank you. I'll ask a similar question as a member of Van Dork. Is your employer authorizing you paid leave while you are here working on the board?

I do take time off for the time I don't work. That said, in the evenings, my position is very, very demanding, so I do work and follow up on evenings, but any time that is not worked is taken as personal time off.

Thank you. I'm just going to reiterate 9 AAC 52-010, and it's back to therefore the Ethics Act speaks principally to actual substantial conflicts of interest, not the appearance of conflicts. And I have to admit Given your past testimonies and the proposals before us, I just— I have question about whether you will be able to remain impartial and withhold and preserve the integrity of this board by the decisions you are making. Do you feel you will be able to do that? Thank you, Member Wood, for that excellent question.

I absolutely do believe I will be able to to speak— to perform independently and in an unbiased manner. The positions I've taken on prior position— prior proposals before this board were informed by information that was before me in those prior positions. And what I will be relying on right now is information that is, you know, in the public comments and anticipated testimony. So I don't know, I don't have all of the facts and I haven't formed opinions on any of the proposals before the board at this time. And I will be making an independent evaluation based on the information before me at this board at this time.

And quite frankly, a lot of that information has not been given to me. And I have not formed concrete opinions on any proposals at this time.

Mr. Carpenter. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chamberlain, for clarifying some of that. I have a couple questions, and so I'm going to start off with this. Calista has made a very straightforward decision in regards to area and fisheries.

I think that's quite clear. They've taken that position not only at public meetings, but you as a representative, Calista, have also presented those opinions to this board specifically.

I think it's really difficult, and I, I can't imagine actually being in your position. Having to split your personal opinions from your employer. I think that would be inherently difficult. But some of the things that have been said specifically by the president, I believe, of Calista, um, is when you were appointed to the U.S. Advisory Panel on International North Pacific Anadromous Fish Commission, They also talked about the idea that Calista was— and it's for sure their right to do this— they were pushing for people within Calista and other organizations on the Yukon to be put on panels or boards like this.

So I guess my question to you is, if your employer pushed very hard for you to be put on this board, which you were, It just seems very hard for me to believe that the opinion of your employer that has been very adamant many, many times at these meetings that you could completely come into a meeting like this unbiased. And so I'd like to give you a chance to address that, and I think it's important for the public that you do so. So I appreciate that. Thank you for that excellent question, Member Carpenter.

I do understand that this is a, you know, that Chalista has taken positions before on this. Those statements were personal statements of the president and chief executive officer Andrew Guy, which he is entitled to make. He's also an attorney. And with that, I'm an attorney. I don't think either of us— he is a chief executive officer for a corporation that is, I think, that has as many diverse interests is willing to risk any involvement or conflicts or appearances of impropriety by doing anything as broad as trying to influence me as this.

I similarly, when we went through legislative confirmation, one of the promises I made when in my Senate confirmation hearing was that if Chalista were ever to make a request for me or try to influence my opinion, that would be my last day working at Chalista. I am not prepared and not willing to compromise my integrity for any position.

I, I left a law firm that was profitable and doing well to come back and to work for the benefit of our people. But this— and my job duties have no— in— are in no way related to anything to do with the Board of Fisheries. And I've had no discussions on any specific proposals with any executives within Chalista Corporation, any of the directors, or any of this. There has been a complete divorce of policy discussions within the corporation in order to maintain that degree of separation needed. And I take my ethical responsibilities under this as not only a state official but a practicing attorney.

I've had to divorce myself and my personal opinions from a lot of employers. And also one of the big things within my corporation is I am given a lot of leeway. I am very— I'm given The ability to speak up and oppose positions of the corporation and speak out against them. There's a wide latitude of this. And I am one of 4,000 employees within this corporation.

So I—. We—. And this goes to a lot of Alaska Native corporations and Alaska Native organizations. There are over 500 of these companies within the state of Alaska that employ a considerable amount. Chalista is but one, and there are 4,000 employees within that.

And to put that limitation on those groups would severely undermine and undercut that voice within Alaska. And so we are part of a very large organization and group within that. But there has been— but there is a very clear line of demarcation within Chalista's actions and my own. And a lot of its policy decisions do not involve me. Chalista has its own vice president of lands and natural resources.

At no point in my career with Chalista have I ever taken direction from that vice president on any policy decisions. And quite frankly, we do not discuss policy decisions when it comes to regulatory matters. Thank you. I appreciate it. If I could just ask one more question.

This kind of gets to a monetary thing. I'm not going to address the issue of the permit. I think that— I agree with Mr. Godfrey that I believe that, you know, there's no clear line in the sand on how far or how many river miles are associated with someone that owns a permit or not. It's very— it's laid out pretty clear. And I do wish there would be some more clarity specific to future boards so that they could deal with the idea of permits.

But specifically to monetary value, when I look at the Calista Corporation, it is a very big organization that represents a huge geographical area within western Alaska, the Kuskokwim region and parts of the Yukon. And I guess my question is, are there grants, are there projects that Calista engages with specific to the Lower Yukon or the Kuskokwim that— a financial gain to the corporation to get these grants?

Would any decisions that you made here possibly impact the ability for those to continue?

So thank you for that question. That's going to require a lot more nuance, but my— and to the best of my knowledge, the answer is no. I do want to qualify that by saying, as we have over 100 subsidiaries, uh, and I, I can't give the exact figure, but the general revenue for Chalista Corporation is over $1 billion a year. We do have, uh, one of our holding lines does do work in western Alaska, uh, doing heavy civil construction. To the best of my knowledge, none of those.

Work. None of that work is related to fisheries in any way. There is STG, which is doing a lot of construction related to building of ports and barging ports throughout the Kuskokwim and Yukon. There is— there are— STG is also doing work related to recovery efforts and rebuilding of of in the aftermath of Typhoon Halong and Merbok. They also do airport construction, and heavy infrastructure, down on the Aleutian Islands.

They do construction in the area of military bases and, environmental reclamation. However, I have not in my tenure seen a contract or anything that in any way relates to, fisheries. I have made an inquiry into Challista, and the response I received was negative on that. But this is a very, very large corporation with a lot of, a lot of ongoing operations in there. But to the best of my knowledge, there aren't any grants or contracts or any business related to fishery.

Thank you. Thank you for stating that for the record. I think it's important because I think tying a direct financial gain to you as an employer— an employee of Calista is maybe a stretch, but I think the revenues that come into a corporation that you do work for that could potentially be impacted, the decisions that this board may take, you know, I just wanted to make it clear that, you know, there wasn't a conflict there, and having stated what you did. I will take your word for that. So I'll leave it at that, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Godfrey. Before you get in there, I just— I was passed a note that if you're wanting to sign up for public testimony, you got about 2 and a half minutes to get your blue card in. Thank you, Mr. Godfrey. You bet. Two points.

One, I want to piggyback off of what Board Member Carpenter was— the issue he was raising. But first of all, and I don't want to belabor the point on the permit held by aunt, uncle, parent, etc. Other than it's, it's not a matter— it's not simply a matter of will they have the opportunity to harvest more fish if a proposal is adopted, but it's really the economic value of the permit 5 or 10 years down the road if they never fished it again because they haven't fished it in 20, 30, 40 years. Irrespective of that, it's when and if they choose to sell the permit, the economic value has increased because of a decision that's made by the board. That I'll leave that We've discussed it long enough, but I would like to ask, uh, to piggyback off what Board Member Carpenter had asked Board Member Chamberlain, rather than the optics of the general public looking at a board member whose employer has been on the record and in support of certain proposals or categories of proposals, I just want to ask Mr. Chamberlain if he's aware, and I'm sure, and I know the answer is going to be, but I want to put this on the record.

Are you aware of the optics that there is an implied, there's an implicit pressure on you not simply to vote a certain way? It's, it's implicit anyways, optically, if not in reality. But that the flip side of that is maybe there's not a professional gain, what Board Member Carpenter just said, and I I'm sure there's not, but there's a professional negative consequence to vote a different way on the other side of it. So maybe not a gain, but a negative professional consequence. So the general public optically may view it that way.

Mr. Chamberlain, are you aware of that and cognizant of optically and ostensibly how some people may view that? I am aware that there may be an appearance of impropriety, which is why I have taken a lot of effort to separate myself from, uh, Chalista as far and create walls to isolate myself from that regulatory, uh, positions of Chalista, and why Chalista as a professional organization has decided to step out of this avenue on there. Now the President is free and clear to make his own personal opinions. And my understanding of those were, you know, yeah, we do support, we need more people out stepping into the board because— but on that, absolutely, I am aware and I'm very cognizant of that. And but at the same time, I, You know, I— to put that burden on me as a member of an Alaska Native organization would potentially— again, as I previously stated, would create a large chilling effect on a lot of those organizations from participating in public process.

Alaska Native corporations are very involved in boards and commissions throughout the state, up from the North Slope to infrastructure development and a lot of those things. And a lot of them do touch on these things. But I don't think it's fair for a member or an employee of an Alaska Native organization to check their experiences at the door. But I do commit to reviewing all information objectively and not doing that. And I take my professional obligations as a practicing attorney and as a public official very seriously.

If there ever were to be a breach of that duty or that— or any such attempt by Chalista to influence any regulatory matters, I would immediately disclose that. And if they were to insist on that, I would no longer be employed there. Thank you.

Mr. Carpenter. Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. Just one final question, Mr. Chamberlain. Since you've been on the board, do you, do you think that any decisions or votes that you have taken specific to fisheries in state waters that had a direct financial impact to Calista Corporation, whether it be a federal issue or a state issue, do you think that the impact that it could have had financially to your corporation swayed the way that you voted on any issue since you've been on the board?

Thank you, Member Carpenter. To that question, there has been no vote that I've made that has had a direct financial impact to my corporation on my time— in my time at the board.

And I don't mean to belabor this, but specifically to a Pequot issue that we dealt with in October, and that, that revolved around pulling federal TAC into state water fisheries, which would have had a, you know, possible direct impact with the CDQ group that is within your region. Do you feel that that vote that you took there, that you took it because of the financial impact that would have resulted from that vote? Thank you, Member Carpenter. That's a wonderful question. I appreciate the opportunity to clarify this on the record.

The CDQ groups and Alaska Native Native corporations are different statutory animals and we are in no way related. So Alaska Native corporations are created under the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act. They were formed for— to basically to operate profitably and to operate for the socioeconomic benefits of their shareholders. In which in this case, Chalista Corporation has about 39,000 of them, roughly about 37% live out in the region. The rest live either here in the Matsu Valley or throughout the nation.

And CDQ groups were formed under the Magnuson-Stevens Act in around 1990, which is well after the, the formation of Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act. They operate for the benefit of 67 coastal communities and are tied to residency within those regions. They're not limited to Alaska Natives or to any Aboriginal roots. It is tied to economic— to recoup for economic incentives for residents of that region. So while our membership and our shareholder— I don't know how CDQs describe the people they benefit.

The beneficiaries of the respective groups overlap, they are not the same. Chilista Corporation— I myself have never resided in a CDQ community. Chilista Corporation represents 56 communities upon— along the Yukon and Kuskokwim Valley, and the Chilista region is roughly the size of the state of New York.

The region that CVRF and Yukon River Delta Fisheries. I'm forgetting the other. Forgive me, Ragnar, if you're in the room. I forgot the name of our other CDQ group.

We do operate in coordination, especially in.

—Of recent events with Typhoon Halong, but there are no commercial ties. There are no contracts between these organizations. I'd like to keep the focus on these questions to state waters-related issues, not federal issues, since the board has no jurisdiction over federal issues. Thank you. Madam Chair, I appreciate that, but that proposal specifically was about taking federal TAC away and putting it in state waters is directly impacting a state fishery.

And if a CDQ group or position of a board member that represents an organization at public meetings, that that corporation will have a financial gain because the TAC removed from the federal fishery into state waters, that would have a giant financial impact on that corporation. And that's why I asked the Okay. So have we clarified that there— is there a financial nexus going back? If that's the case, that should have been raised at that meeting. So the question then becomes for me is, is there a financial interest that Chalista holds in any CDQ group?

There is no financial interest Chalista holds in any CDQ group. All right. A couple other questions that I have, if there are not any others. Are there aspects of your professional portfolio which Chalista, that in your position, as Deputy Counsel advises on state waters or fisheries issues at all?

I do speak to subsistence priority and to the repeal of— to federal issues. So I do speak to legislative issues. I've been asked to weigh in on a position before the Board of Game, to which my answer is I don't know. But I do, I do weigh in on legislative issues, but no regulatory issues. Okay.

Related to state waters fisheries or just federal fisheries?

They, they may affect state waters fisheries. A lot of them are subsistence priority. Are any of your employment or performance metrics, salary adjustments or performance bonuses tied to your service on this board? No. And I think you answered the question that, uh, how many shareholders does Chalista have.

I think you mentioned 39,000, and that less than 40% live in region. Is that correct? That's correct. Do you have any way of determining or gauging what or if there may be a benefit and to whom by any actions that you might take at this meeting with respect to Chalista shareholders?

I, I've made an independent inquiry as to any fisheries-related impacts. Chalista shareholders— benefit to Chalista shareholders is a wide, wide-standing issue. Chalista shareholders operate within this fishery, but I don't have any individual knowledge of these. Chalista shareholders operate statewide there. I don't think there is any decision I make before the board that wouldn't affect one of Chiles' 39,000 shareholders.

It's impossible to differentiate between them. So as I'm thinking about this, you know, I'm harkening back to the letter that we received, and I just want to note the reference to a '93— I think it was '92 or '93— Attorney General opinion. However, when I read that, it seemed to me, in my opinion, that that reference focused primarily on a board member's conflict related to the members' performance and administration of a discrete contract, and specifically for the advancement or providing access to subsistence users. Now, you've touched on that a little bit, and so I'm thinking— that's, that's why I was asking some of the questions that I was asking. However, you know, in rereading RC-29, I think that that 1994 Attorney General opinion more aptly applies, and there's a couple of spaces where I wanted to reference the language in that Attorney General's opinion that's going to help me formulate my decision.

Decision. On page 1, towards the bottom of that document, on that page, it's talking about a state board member and whether or not a conflict of interest due to membership in Organization B, which I think in this case is— is articulated as two private corporation boards, right?

And whether that member should participate in the state board in implementing new state law regulating industry, right? And with respect to the matters that, that could specifically benefit either the member or the organization which they represent. So towards the bottom of that page 1, it says, "B's general mission"— and in this case, I kind of supplement that further— "for the private corporation is to promote the cultural, economic, and political interests of the community statewide." In this case, I think, you know, I'm looking at it through the lens of Chalista-specific shareholders. To this end, B, i.e., the member, is involved in lobbying, advocacy, and educational activities on behalf of the members of its community. Generally speaking, that member is involved in a variety of policy issues statewide that sometimes puts that member at an adversarial position against state government and the State Board.

There are also times, however, when that member intervenes in matters of in support of state government and the state board. So the two issues that arise out of that are whether the members' personal financial interests are arising from the membership on the boards give rise to an impermissible conflict of interest when the duties of the state board on matters relating to the implementation of this particular law that they were working on, a 1992 law. So it goes through the standard kind of definitions of the act and what financial and personal— how financial and personal information is defined. And then it talks about, for the purposes of analyzing the member's potential conflict of interest and not to imply any improper motive on the member's part, the pertinent inquiry is to examine how the member could use an official position on the State Board to benefit the organization with respect to the matter. Okay.

And again, we go through that exercise of whether it's matters are considered substantial and material. The Department of Law has advised that it's this board's job to determine whether or not that is or is not. However, it says, although the member possesses both a financial and a personal interest in B and in the, in the organization under the Ethics Act, and the organization has attempted to influence the board on how to implement this law via position paper, nonetheless conclude that the member does not possess an impermissible conflict of interest regarding such matters. And they reached that conclusion based on the following two reasons: that first of all, although the organization espouses its views in the 1992 law in order to influence the State Board, as may any interested citizen, that organization does not appear to have a financial stake in any particular matter before the State Board. Even if the State Board is persuaded to implement the 1992 law in which they were advocating for, in accordance with the organization's views, the organization does not in itself derive any tangible financial benefit from such an action, and if the organization does not possess a significant financial interest in the implementation of that law, then we believe the member does not possess an impermissible conflict of interest based on his financial interest in the organization.

Second, they note that even if the state board takes an action in conformance with these advice or the organization's advice, advice on how to implement the law, any benefits that might flow from such an action inure to the benefits of all users of the state, not just the community that that organization represents. And because neither that organization nor the member would enjoy a benefit not enjoyed by all users across the state, or in case— in this case, I think a very broad geographical cross-section, arguably half of the state of Alaska, In my opinion, on these facts, we believe that any conflict of interest the member might possess in matters relating to the implementation of the law that they were advocating for is minor and one based on an interest, quote, possessed generally by the public or a large class of persons to which the officer belongs, unquote. So in conclusion, they say that based on the foregoing, we believe— and this is the Attorney General— the member does not possess a significant financial interest in the implementation of that law that they were advocating for. Nor an interest in matters significantly different from the large class of users across the state. And for these reasons, we conclude that the members' personal and financial interests in Vee do not give rise to an impermissible conflict of interest in violation of the Act for matters relating to the implementation of the '92 law that they are contemplating in this ethics opinion.

So I see that to be quite similar, frankly, and also not dissimilar to the prior advocacy that was contemplated in the Attorney General opinion that is referenced in our RC 28. So I think that there is some really good discussion, some interesting points that have been brought up here.

But, you know, in the matter of consistency, again, you are talking about large classes. I fail to see a direct financial impact. I acknowledge that there is a personal interest, absolutely. And again, the board is tasked with deriving or determining whether or not that interest is substantial or material. And that is the question that I am contemplating right now.

Based on what I have heard, I am not inclined to agree that there is, but I understand that there are some more questions or comments from board members. Mr. Wood. Yeah, thank you. I just, you know, I'm having a hard time overcoming this, the advocacy that has been personal. I think we're in uncharted waters here because up until this point we've always dealt with people who own CFEC permits and, and how much benefit they might gain from decisions they make in the fishery.

But at this point, like, coming from the perspective of somebody that's like self-employed carpenter fisherman that genuinely earns less than $5,000 in a season, and that's been a determination. The fact that somebody's sitting on the board earning 6 digits is a financial interest. And, and maybe it's going to take, uh, you know, a lawsuit to bring, to bring this out, but I mean, I'm having a hard time just kind of overcoming this, this feeling that, that there's more here than what's before us. And, and with that, I'd like to point out that is in 39.52430, any state action taken in violation is voidable. So, so potentially, like, the repercussions here are that all the time that we spend making this decision could be voidable.

Then there's a financial penalty on top of that, which probably can be handled very easily. But I don't know. I just— I would like to bring out the finances of this and what matters in terms of income and what is financially important is important to me sitting here at this table with, you know, with other— 3 other people that are unemployed, probably with no health insurance, and like this is significant. So—.

That's an interesting perspective. I would say that what I am relying on is the guidance that I have I have before me from the Department of Law. I would also reference RC 28 when we talk— when the Attorney General talked about prior advocacy. And in that, in that instance, the Department of Law says that prior position on allocation of salmon, in this instance it was for the Chignik area, related to my employment, does not create a present conflict of interest. And that's, that's what I have to rely on in terms of legal guidance.

And so that's what I'm going to continue to fall back on until that gets changed or clarified by statute or by case law. Mr. Carpenter. Thank you. I'm going to ask one final question. And this is specific to either in your personal capacity or in your professional capacity.

Have you ever advocated in either one of those situations at— during the legislative session or through a public forum to advocate for closing area fisheries in general? No, I have not. Thank you.

Okay. Hearing no additional discussion, again, I think I have made my points clear and the basis by which I am deciding. And Mr. Chamberlain, I do not rule that you have any conflicts of interest before us at this meeting. Are there any objections?

Hearing none, let's move on. Mr. Swenson, will you please put your ethics disclosure on the record?

Hi, I'm Greg Swenson. I'm just a simple guy. I look at the boss in the mirror every morning for better or worse. Thank goodness for that.

I was born and raised in Anchorage and I'm married with one daughter and one grandson. My wife and I are retired schoolteachers and my daughter is an assistant— was an assistant principal in the school district but just recently retired. After I taught 13 years, I became a licensed builder-developer. I'm not doing that anymore, so I'm retired from that. We both receive income from teacher retirements from the state, PFD, CD interest, investment, and residential rental income.

I get a stipend from the state for my service on the board. Neither I or my immediate family have any financial interest in fisheries, nor are we involved in any lawsuits with the State of Alaska Department Fish and Game or Board of Fisheries. I also have licenses for hunting, fishing, and a private pilot's license. This information is true and correct to the best of my abilities. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Swenson. Are there any board questions? Hearing none, I rule that you can fully participate at this meeting. Mr. Godfrey. Good morning.

My name is Jared Godfrey. I'm a lifelong Alaskan. I was born in Juneau. My family's originally from the Kodiak Islands. I'm a shareholder of Koniag Regional Corporation, Fognak Native Corporation, Uziniki Native Corporation.

I'm an elected tribal council member of the Native Village of Port Lyons. I live in Eagle River. I have two adult children, 22 years old and 19 years old. Professionally, I'm a consultant with various clients, primarily in the broadband space and economic development, but nothing pertaining to fisheries. I'm a— I'm the campaign manager for candidate for governor Shelley Hughes.

My son participated in the commercial fisheries of Bristol Bay and Kodiak last year as a deckhand. I have no conflicts to declare regarding any matters in front of the Board of Fisheries during this meeting. Neither I nor any member of my family is a party directly or indirectly to a lawsuit with the state of Alaska or any agencies of the state. These statements are factual and true to the best of my knowledge. Thanks, Mr. Godfrey.

And I'm going to just kind of ask the question that I've repeatedly asked at other meetings just to get it on the record, that has the candidate that you work for taken any positions with respect to any of the fisheries issues that are present before us, or are there any fundraising or campaign contributions that you feel should be disclosed at this time? No, not at this time. I will say that the candidate has not taken positions yet on state jurisdiction waters. The candidate has in fact publicly on many occasions taken positions on federally managed waters, which are obviously outside of our jurisdiction. Thank you, Mr. Godfrey.

Any other questions? Mr. Irwin. Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. Um, Member Godfrey, did you say that your son is a deckhand in the Kodiak fishery?

Both the Kodiak and Bristol Bay fisheries. Okay, thank you. So my question is just, um, some of the topics before us deal with, um, some species that travel, um, from other regions, including the Kodiak region. And I guess my question is just, is there any matters before this board that you could make a decision on that would give your son any additional financial benefit, um, as being a deckhand in Kodiak? Well, neither under statute or regulations, my son being a deckhand, remain to any decisions I make here.

But that having been said, That's a reasonable question. Ostensibly, possibly, materially, substantively speculative. I don't know. But the reality is he has yet to determine if he's going to go out commercial fishing this year, and he's not going to do, uh, the pot— black cod pot fishery that he did last winter in Kodiak. Uh, he has a very good job right now throughout the winter, and he has yet to determine if he's going to leave.

But in the event he does, I suppose there's potential, but I can't say. Okay, thank you. I'd imagine that there's literally hundreds of deckhands in Bristol Bay and/or Kodiak, so that would kind of be a lot of people to try and be very speculative about what that numerical value would be. Um, seeing no other questions, Mr. Godfrey, I rule that you can fully participate in the, in the matters before us at this meeting. Mr. Wood.

All right. Thank you. My name is Mike Wood. I live in Chase, Alaska, 5 miles north of Talkeetna on the Susitna River. I'm a self-employed carpenter and do contract work for the Alaska Mountaineering School, Antarctic Logistics and Expeditions, and currently would be out doing special forces training and winter survival, except for this time conflict that I have now.

I have an SO4H setnet permit in Cook Inlet and own Sue Salmon Co., a small-scale commercial small business that's supplies local markets. I am the volunteer chair of the board of the Susitna River Coalition and the chair of the Chase Community Council— well, no longer the chair of the community council. My wife Molly is an independent consultant. We both receive an Alaska Permanent Fund dividend. We have current hunting, fishing, and trapping license.

Neither my wife or I are involved in any lawsuits against the state, the board, or the department, um, and I can certify that this disclosure statement is true, correct, and complete. To the best of my knowledge. Thank you, Mr. Wood. Any questions? Seeing none, I rule that you can fully participate in the matters before us at this meeting.

I think that concludes— oh, sorry, Mr. Carpenter. That's all right. Thank you, Madam Chair. This, this should be quick. My name is Tom Carpenter.

I reside in Cordova. I'm currently retired, have divested myself completely of all businesses, including limited entry permits and IFQs. I receive the Alaska Permanent Fund dividend, as does my daughter, and I receive a stipend for serving on this board. I purchase an Alaska sport fish hunt license annually and hold a Copper River subsistence permit annually. Neither I nor anyone in my immediate extended family.

I have any financial interest in any business which relates to fish and wildlife resources or belong to any organizations which any financial gain can be attributed. There are no proposals before the board that will benefit myself or anyone in my family. No member of my family or extended family is involved with any lawsuits against the state of Alaska or the Department of Fish and Game. And I believe this statement to be true, correct, and complete. Thank you, Mr. Carpenter.

Questions? Seeing none, Mr. Carpenter, you can fully participate in all the matters before us at this meeting. Have I missed anybody? Okay. That concludes ethics disclosures.

Let's go ahead and take about a 20-minute break. We'll come back on the record and begin TK, and then we'll move right from TK, traditional knowledge reports, into public testimony. Thank you.

All right. Welcome back, everyone.

The time is 11:04. I would ask that the audience quiet its comments, please, or take the discussions outside. Thank you. And we are going to go ahead and get into move through our agenda.

And we'll— next up is traditional knowledge reports. Mr. Carpenter. Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. You know, this is kind of something new that the board has taken on the last couple of years, and I think that there's some important qualities in regards to traditional knowledge being presented to the board now, considering And I just would like the chair and the board to consider this. Considering the amazing amount of stuff that we have to do in the next 7 days, there's 31 people that have signed up for traditional knowledge, and I believe all those people should have the opportunity.

They traveled a long way to come here and speak. But the general guidelines in the past with traditional knowledge has been 10 minutes have been given to individuals to do that. But I believe that all the meetings that we've had this part of the meeting process.

Process, I believe 3 or 4 people at the most maybe have ever signed up. And so I just want the board to consider based on the timeframe and the amount of days that we have to do that, I would like everyone that's on the list to be able to testify. But I also think that the board should consider maybe is 10 minutes necessary and could we maybe think about 5 minutes and, you know, because there are other opportunities as well with public testimony committee, the whole, that people could also get some of their points across. So I just wanted to bring that to the board's attention to see if anybody had any interest or comment in that. Thank you, Mr. Carpenter.

Mr. Owen. Yeah, thank you, Mr. Carpenter, for bringing this to the board's attention. I think it's important for us to discuss in terms of the volume of testimonies we're also going to be receiving. I believe that prior to this meeting, if I'm not incorrect, Madam Chair actually made some changes to public testimony timing, including— oh no, I'm sorry, but with the Testimony staying at 3 minutes. I believe that there is value in the points that you are bringing up today.

However, this list has been published and the timeframe of allowed— the allowed time was given public notice prior to this meeting. And everybody who signed up, I would assume, has pretty much prepared their presentations within that timeframe. And so I don't see us giving the public enough time at this moment to limit that time. But I value what you're bringing to the table and think it's for consideration for future meetings. Mr. Godfrey and then Mr. Swenson.

I think Board Member Irwin makes a really good point. It's kind of like a bait and switch. I don't think at this point there's— I think moving forward, maybe the board can exercise foresight to prevent that much time, but And I'm not sure what that looks like, but right now I think that we're kind of committed. And so I would agree with Board Member Erwin. Mr. Swenson.

Well, Mr. Carpenter brings up a good point. So do my other members. I would hope that there's 30 of you out there. If you're hearing the same thing over and over, cut your presentation short if you can We don't need to hear the same thing 30 times. So if you have something that's, you know, and you can also— I've seen this happen before— one person could represent several people who can stand in line behind them showing their support, and that one person could give, you know, this can come up also with, you know, the proposals.

So Please try to help us all out and, you know, get your points across and do it quickly. And please don't keep repeating things over and over. Thank you.

Mr. Wood. I get the message. I promise not to ask too many questions.

All right. So that puts me in a rough spot. Okay. So I think it's pretty well known that I've championed this space for a long time. And I'm proud of it.

And I'm glad that people are showing a lot of interest in it and want to turn out for it. Couple of things, though. I did reserve the right to reduce the time based on how many people we have signed up for public testimony. Last I heard, it was 219. That is 3 full days of public testimony, and we have 5 days to complete our business.

So unless we start tacking additional days onto this meeting, as has been done before, I think we're going to be challenged to get through all of our, our business on time. So I hear 5 minutes, I hear 10 minutes. How about we split the difference and go 7? Sounds good to me.

You know, I'm excited that there was a— that there's been a great turnout with this, and I know that we had committed to 10. What I do want to echo some of the comments about repetitiveness. I've given heads up to folks that I've had direct contact with. I think it's really important to hear the traditional knowledge base. Similarly, I might consider reducing the AC time and the RAC time to 10, unless that's in regulation also.

It's always been— we do 10.

Can reduce it beyond 10? Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I want to make sure that we're getting through this. I also anticipate evening sessions.

As we go through and make sure that everybody has a chance to be heard.

So, well, 7, 7, 10, we will round up and do 8. So talk fast. Because this, I want to recognize the importance of this, but I also I want to recognize that there was no additional budget for this. And we need to make sure we get through it as fast as we can. That being said, for traditional knowledge and for public testimony, I'm going to be strict.

So if I cut you off, I want you to know right now, it is— I hope you don't perceive it as being disrespectful. To you personally. I need to respect the, the ability to get through this and to give everybody the time that they are due to provide their testimonies and their input to the board in this, in this forum. So please, please do your best to be respectful of the time limit. Please listen for the buzzer.

When the buzzer goes off, I'm going to cut you off at this point. I can't— I don't have a lot of leeway at this meeting with the amount of interest in public testimony to give a lot of additional time.

And again, as other members have indicated, we'll have opportunities in committee of the whole also to bring forth nuance and additional information to the board. Okay. A little bit about traditional knowledge report. So as we've talked about, this is new to the board's process since the last Aleutian Islands Alaska Pen Chignik Finfish meeting, and the board recognizes again that local knowledge and traditional knowledge is a very important aspect of best available science. And as such, we need to have access to those knowledge systems, and that should be an important part of informing the board decisions through your close proximity and intimate, often very longstanding relationships with the fish resources, the environment, and the ecological systems that are critical to fish sustainability.

We intend and endeavor to incorporate traditional knowledge more intentionally into this process by seeking and inviting those knowledge holders recognized by their communities, tribes, or other organizations to share their experience, their values, alternative and/or independent observations and data collections directly with the board. Again, this was made through— this invitation was made through this new agenda item. We provided the opportunity to sign up to provide traditional knowledge relevant to the proposals and subject matter under consideration at this meeting. The time allowance again will be 8 minutes. It was nearly 3 years ago when the board began formally incorporating traditional knowledge reports into our meeting agenda.

Once we complete this winter's meetings, I intend to hold at least one, perhaps more, of the board's process committee meetings to gather input, evaluate our experiences with traditional knowledge and this agenda item so far, and discuss how to improve this still new part of our process going forward. So I'm looking for feedback in that space from members, from members of the public, from traditional knowledge holders themselves. And I encourage the public to watch for that opportunity to provide comments to the process committee. But it doesn't have to be just through this process committee. I welcome your thoughts on this at any time in your written comments or public testimony.

So, and that certainly doesn't preclude you also from reaching out to me outside of meetings and shoot me an email or Setting up a time to chat about your thoughts on this. Okay. So when your name is called, here is another thing that is going to help move this thing along. If you are up next, I'm going to prime it. I'm going to give you the next 4 or 5 names that are people that are going to be testifying.

Please move forward. I want to keep this moving quickly. So I don't want to spend a lot of time with each individual walking from the back all the way up the aisle to take their seat and provide their testimony. So if you know you are up, up, please move your body closer to the front so that we can move it along in quick fashion. Did I miss anything?

Okay. We've got 30 people that have signed up to provide traditional knowledge reports. The first up is Karen Pletnikoff from APIA. Hi, Karen. Welcome.

Thank you for this opportunity, Chair and board members. For the record, I'm Karen Pletnikoff. I'll skip the introductions for the sake of time. I'm a tribal member from the Aleut community of St. Paul Island, living here on Dena'ina lands, where I've worked for the Aleutian Pribilof Islands Association for over 23 years. I serve the board's board of directors by staffing their fisheries.

Committee, and it's my elders on the Fisheries Committee who've asked me to come here today to share our Unanga cultural relationship with all our fisheries, our reliance and dependence on these resources that the Creator provided for, for us, all of us. And before working at APIA, I worked seasonally in salmon and halibut fisheries, having packed roe and tended for a season fished salmon in Bristol Bay in the '90s. Another season and fished a couple of seasons longlining chugi with my father on St. Paul. My elders want me to tell you that everything we have comes from the sea, that we intend to be on our lands and waters for thousands more years, and that we continue to adapt to our changing resources, but we can't adapt to a lack of access. Thanks to the rich waters we live on, we Unangax have survived and thrived on our most remote and land-limited resources for thousands of years.

Researchers say 2,000 years on the islands off the Alaska Peninsula or up to 8,000 years of continual inhabitation on my grandfather's village of Nikolski. But that's only how deep they dug before they graduated or ran out of funds or otherwise stopped digging and told us that was our story. We say we've been Unanga since the creator dropped two hairy people on the islands of the Four Mountains in the central Aleutians. And if you happen to know how hairless we Aleuts are today, you know that that was a very, very long time ago. We know that everything we Unanga have been given us from the creator comes from the sea.

Our islands, our volcanoes that rose from the ocean, the grass that made our beds and our roofs can only grow because of the marine nutrients brought by the seabirds. Our culture developed from complete reliance on marine resources, a reliance that's reflected in our language, our our worldview. It's a reliance that we still have today. We are as reliant on the fisheries as marine mammals, and the declining populations of marine mammals reflect our declining populations in our communities. Our iqyaq, our kayaks, were the most advanced vessels on the water for thousands of years, in the hands of pairs of lifelong hunters, These skin boats were able to spend days and weeks at sea finding, hunting, and following whales while poison darts took effect, screeching speeds and covering distances unrepeatable by human power, and riding out the largest waves flexing on articulated ivory joints.

As almost no trees and none of the species that we use for the iqyaq were sourced grow on our islands, they were all sourced from driftwood that fell into the Alaska Coastal Current as far south as California and as far north as southeast Alaska from old-growth forests that have been logged, down rivers that have been dammed, and off of coasts that are now highways. That wood that we depend on no longer exists. The whales that fed whole villages and framed houses were decimated by commercial fisheries— or whaling. Excuse me, and haven't recovered. Populations of tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of Unanga were able to have families, make art, sing and dance together from the waters we live beside.

But it's the impacts from over 100 years earlier acculturation and contact from most other Alaska Natives that have had the harshest impacts on us. Resulting in small pockets of our surviving villages across the huge region who today continue to strive to adapt to irreversible cultural changes, including the loss of at least 15 villages in the last century. As our elders instruct us and history demonstrates, we've continually adapted to new fisheries. Nokolski Tribal President and Elder Arnold Dushkin recently shared at a board meeting that a decrease in a local salmon abundance was because maybe it's time for that stream to do that. And this perfectly captures our indigenous knowledge on how natural cycles are to be expected and adapted to.

But the amount and speed of ongoing changes across multiple fisheries have depleted many of our tribal members' abilities to hang on to their small businesses and live in their communities. And we see this in closing schools because we live on the edge of the largest, most wide open ocean. The size and strength of storms and waves we have is larger than many more protected bays and inlets. The historic weather and water patterns that we used to be able to use Indigenous knowledge to predict are not reliable anymore. We have to have larger boats for safe operations, and we still struggle to afford subsistence.

Trips. But when we see how much sharing is relied on for subsistence access in our region, we see how important our fisheries are to our kitchens and to our communities. When we lose a fishing business, we lose that subsistence access permanently for that family and all their relatives who depend on them. We really do understand the pain other regions are facing because we're suffering from losses of traditional fisheries to. While multiple crop processors close in our region, we watch drug overdoses increasingly take our family members.

We have a right to survive in our region, and we know that means continuous adaptation. But we also can't do that without the access to the fisheries our residents can reach. Kugalakuk. Thank you, Karen. Appreciate that.

It was really interesting. I didn't know that there was articulated ivory joints in those ships. Any questions? Appreciate your testimony today. Thank you very much.

Next up will be Jacob Ivanoff, followed by John Andrew James— is it Nikolai maybe, or Nikolai? And then Casey Kupchak and Leilani Luerz. Hi, Jacob. Welcome. Good to see you.

Good morning, Madam Chair. It's good to see you too, members of the board. Thank you for the opportunity to provide a traditional knowledge report. I'm going to go ahead and start with that. I am from Unakleet.

I am part of the Native Village of Unakleet. I'm a tribal member, and I also work for the Native Village of Unakleet as their environmental coordinator overseeing our governmental contracts with our contamination cleanup. But I also work for a North Nome Eskimo community as their fisheries advocate, and that I just started recently. But one thing that we've seen within our region is a lot of change in the climate, weather. There's more rain, and during the spawning season, there was an increase in predation such as the meganzers.

The Dolly Vardens, and we've seen a large increase in beavers within our river system.

But we've also seen changes within the marine ecosystem, and that began— it began in 2016 with the heat blob that was out in the ocean and the continued high temperatures in 2017, 2018, and 2019 was a devastation to our salmon is that we had high temperatures of 90s to 100 degrees within our region, and that's the hottest that it has ever seen. That's the hottest that we've ever seen in our area. And while I was out on the rivers looking at the fish and getting information, uh, 20— in one river system, I was— I had put a probe down in it, and nearly 20 feet down into the river system, it was 84 degrees. And with that temperature, it's reducing the amount of oxygen And that year we had millions and millions of pinks in our river system and a lot of chums, which essentially they ended up suffocating and floating down the river belly up.

And so with that, with the change in the marine ecosystem, and I also have been paying attention to research done by ADFNG and seeing that the juvenile salmon within our area were on a low protein diet. And we're having no fat content. And so we're seeing that— we saw that major change in there. And then starting in 2021, when the fisheries in Area M harvested 1.2 million chums, we didn't have— we couldn't even do subsistence. We couldn't fish.

We were closed down from fishing. And since then, we have not been able to meet escapement We have not been able to fish for chums to put away for dried fish and to put in our smokehouse. I have not been able to do any commercial fisheries. I'm also a commercial fisherman, um, and we haven't had any chum-directed commercial fisheries since 2021. Um, and if we did, it would have been just for a few times.

But knowing the changes in the marine ecosystems and within the river systems and understanding that this fishery, along with the trawling, has been there for many years, with the decrease in the amount of salmon returning.

Spawn, I've seen a major decrease in the amount of juvenile salmon swimming out in the ocean in the springtime. I was looking for juvenile salmon this past— I should say last spring— and in areas of our river where we would see hundreds of juvenile salmon piled up and holding there was— I saw maybe 1 or 2 Chinooks or kings, like, um, and I did very few pinks, hardly any chums. So the amount of fish that we are getting back on the grounds right now is very concerning to us because we know that there's changes in the environment and we're having major restrictions on our fisheries. And if you look at Think about this is that you look at the migratory patterns of birds, and if they are getting lower in populations, such as the emperor geese, their entire migratory pattern is closed for hunting. So why can't we do that for fish?

If we're going to be having to have it with the games in our— or the birds and our subsistence foods, we can't continue taking these species out of the ocean if they're not going to be able to be put back on the spawning ground. And I understand that with the amount of rain during the spawning season, that's— it's a possibility that that could reduce the fertility rate of the eggs. And the number that's coming to my mind in a normal regular spawning season for our fertility rate of eggs during spawning season, I think was 38% fertility rate. So there's things that we have to do in order to continue protecting the fish, because if we continue allowing fisheries throughout the entire migratory pattern, we may have no more fish in our river system. And we are all looking for the same thing.

We all want fish.

Thank you, Jacob. Appreciate that. Any questions? Thank you for your testimony today. John Andrew.

Welcome. Excuse me. My name is John W. Andrew. I'm 80 years old, and I'm representing the Organized Village of Kwikwetlemc and myself. And we've been informed by anthropologists and our elders that have gone before us, our people have been harvesting salmon since around 10,000 years ago.

In the old days, they didn't have no modern commercial, no modern fishing gear. They used big river fight traps and homemade sinew nets for beach seining or set netting. But every year, there was fish camps where they used to see, used to have full smokehouses. And using my own fish camp as an example, we used to have 7 to 11 households every summer harvesting. First part of the summer in early June, we'd be targeting King's if there's an opening for us.

In the early days before the restrictions started, we used to fish practically all week when we can. We, early in the morning before daybreak, around 3 o'clock in the morning, we'd make our first set out there. If we got one load in one drift, we'd bring it, haul it up to our family. If I were not too tired, I'd make another drift for my neighbour, then one more time in late afternoon or evening for another family. 'Cause in those days there was no welfare system.

We had to look out for each other and we share all our fish and whatever we get out there. It is such in my great-grandfather's time and my grandfather, my dad's time, when they have a real good escapement, you see salmon jumping all over the river.

And you can easily tell them there were jumpers out there. You can see the big fish jumping out there. But nowadays, you go out there the time they're supposed to be running and you hardly see any. Hardly see any jumpers or anything. And then when we go up our river, there's on there, I don't know, Kwikluk River used to have a lot of escaping on Chinook and chums.

Early in the early years, the bulk of our catches were chum salmon or dock salmon, 'cause in those days, some families have a large dockyard. And if you have 9 to 12 docks, you have to put in, you have to harvest at least 3,000 fish to support your dock team. That's your only mode of travel in the winter for us. And plus, the kings we get and the reds are food for our families. And in the days where we used to try to get most of our fishing done early before end of June.

In those days, to try to— before the rainy season starts, we try to dry them well as we can and put them in their caches where we put them up. But nowadays, the weather's always iffy. Like last few years, there's always storm in May and June, and we don't have no good drying weather for us, and they give a very short opening for us. In the days when we have a lot of big heavy runs out there, we missed those and where we used to share with our other relatives and elders in the community, but now we can't do that. They don't give us enough fishing time in our own backyard.

And in the end of the summer, When we go up to go for, go moose hunting, our neighbors upriver are still fishing. The Kalskak, Aniak, Chuwachpalkan villages further up are fishing later than us. That's where we are. We were fishing in early part of June, try to get it done before end of June, before the rainy season starts.

And all those years when we had good runs, we had no problem. Then starting about right around 1980, the department's predicted runs never materialized. They'd show in numbers, then they'd be gone pretty quick. And most of the time, last few years, I remember back in the early '20s, '21, '22, and '23 was really bad. Our people starting to get short.

I've had people ask my family for dried salmon starting in November because we used to get enough to last us till spring, but nowadays we can never get the amount needed for subsistence anymore. Can't make it no way.

Our subsistence way of life are in forests, our food. In our native language, N'ka means food forest. It's salmon.

It's being erased by their intercept fisheries down at Gull Rock or Area M. In the same way with the Bottom trout fishery has immature bycatch. Thank you for your time. Pleianna. Pleianna, thank you for being here. Any questions?

Ms. Erwin. Thank you, Mr. Andrew, for making— Thank you. I have a question for you. Hi, over here. Thank you for taking the trip and time to come here and give testimony.

I was interested in you talking about how you used to be able to see the fish jump. Could you tell me maybe relatively how long ago was the last time you were able to see fish jump in your river?

Turn your mic on, sir, please. There you go. Early 1980s, but they called it a commercial fishery in 1986. We haven't done any commercial fisheries. We haven't seen those.

Because in my dad's time, and I was only a young boy when I used to go upriver, When there's plenty of fish, we get— we in their spawning areas, we used to see a lot of them finning on the river. There you could see their fins when there's a lot of— or you could stick your oar or paddle, you can feel them bumping on your— or bumping your boat. Now you don't see that or see those anymore. Thank you, Mr. Thank you, ma'am.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Hi, are you James Nikorai or Nikora? Yep, no problem. Unfortunately, James Nikorai, thanks, got pneumonia after the North Pacific Fisheries Management Council.

I'm Kevin Whitworth. Madam Chair, you've given me permission to read into the record his written.

TK report. So this is James Nickorai. This is his report. I was born in Kwethluk, Alaska. I am a lifelong resident of the village.

Kwethluk is located in the lower portion of the Kuskokwim River. Kwethluk people have for generations migrated throughout the Kuskokwim River drainage to harvest traditional foods in their appropriate seasons. My ancestors and family would travel very far to follow the foods and seasons. When my mom was young, in the springtime, they would dog mush from Kwethluk River to Kizaralik River, up to Kizaralik Lake in the mountains to squirrel hunt and to set fishnet traps. After spring camp, my mom would travel to our summertime fish camp.

Fish camp is the most important place to be in the summer because this is where and when we catch our salmon. When I was young, we would come down from spring camp in the later part of May, spend maybe one night in the village, then go down to the fish camp to get ready for the arrival of salmon. One of the teachings of our elders is to always be ready for the arrival of salmon. Have your net mended ready. Have your boat patched and ready.

Have your fish rack built and fish camp cleaned up. Have smoked wood ready. This is what we would do when we got to fish camp. As soon as the fish arrived, first was a king salmon. We would start collecting them, and we wouldn't stop collecting them until the ladies would say we are done.

The ladies are the ones really watching how we're doing, putting away and getting an eye on how much of we filled the smokehouse until we have enough. They do this every year over and over so they know when we have enough fish to live on year-round. Fish Camp in the summer to get our food for the winter is our whole way of life. Like I said before, my mom and her family would dog mush to their spring camp. The chum salmon were really important for the dogs, just as important for us back then as still today.

We are doing what we can to keep our traditions going, teaching our youngsters, our grandkids, our great-grandkids how to take care of the fish, how to cure them, how to smoke them, how to live our way of life. There are several signs my uncle and elders taught me to look for in the springtime to know how many fish are coming up the Kuskokwim and when. One is to observe the direction of the winds. Once the wind shifts to come from the southwest, the king salmon will arrive. High west winds can push Yukon River salmon into the mouth of the Kuskokwim.

Another is to watch the migratory birds and how they come in, especially the Canada goose. If they come in abundantly, or if they come in pulses, or if they come slow and then all at once. This is how the Kuskokwim King Salmon will come in up the river. To make sure our salmon come back each year, I was taught by my elders to take them— take care of them. Taking care of our fish means treating them with respect.

Salmon like to live in a clean environment. We need to keep our fish camp clean, our nets and fish cutting boards clean. My mom taught me to always leave 1 or 2 salmon hanging behind our smokehouse at the end of the season. That way they can tell the fish that hit the river this next year that our fish camp was clean. We cannot waste our fish, not even 1 piece of it.

To waste our fish is a great offense, and they will stop returning to our nets. Our salmon have been changing greatly in recent years. King salmon are smaller, less plentiful. They are more jack males than big females. Chum salmon always seem to be getting smaller, and they are less plentiful.

The silver salmon, or the coho, also less plentiful than they used to be. Fishermen from Kwethluk and the Kuskokwim are having to adapt to subsistence fishing regulations. While we are in conservation— conservation mode, conservation mode for these fish. We are told we have to fish in shorter periods and with shorter nets. My fish camp has started adapting to use dip nets to try to harvest abundant sockeye salmon, which are more abundant, but these do not taste the same as king and chum that really relied on after generations.

We are told there are many reasons for king, chum, and silvers— why are they not coming back? A lot of these reasons are happening in the oceans, including in the high seas fishery. Our salmon are like our children. We watch them and care for them in our river, but then they grow up and we send them off to the ocean with the hope that they will come back safely. The ocean is their nursery, but there are others in that nursery taking— but are there others in that nursery taking care of them?

My elders told me many years ago that the Area M fishery has been intercepting Chinook salmon from the Kuskokwim for as long as they could remember. They knew our salmon were going out to the ocean and would go through False Pass each year. They told me this is one of the things, this is a high seas fishery that is affecting our Kuskokwim salmon. Salmon don't have boundaries. That was what one of the elders told me.

They go from where they are born to another where they are, they go and they come back. They go through different fishing areas. Like I said, our Kuskokwim fishery are in conservation mode to protect salmon spawning when they come through our areas. My elders taught me to take care of the salmon, to respect them, and not to waste them anywhere they are at. That is the traditional report, traditional knowledge report from James Nicorai.

Madam Chair, thank you for allowing me to read it on behalf of James. While he recovers from pneumonia. Thank you. Thank you very much. Appreciate you being here, and we certainly wish him good health and a speedy recovery.

Up next is Leilani Lourdes on behalf of Casey Kupchayek, followed by Nels Alexie and John McIntyre, and then Eva Burke.

Welcome. Welcome. Good morning, Madam Chair and members of the board. Koyaanisqo'ona for this opportunity. My name is Casey Kupchayek.

My Yup'ik name is Aachanook Tlurha. My family is from Doyriak, also known as Togiak, and I am here as a tribal member of the traditional village of Togiak. [SPEAKING YUP'IK] Good afternoon, Madam Chair and members of the board. My name is Leilani Luerz. I'm a tribal member from the community of Togiak.

My mother's name is Apahtusuk. She was born on the riverbank of Manokotak, and my father, Steven, was from Colorado Springs. My grandmother, Itxax, and her husband, Papak, were from the community of Utqiagvik. However, they traveled from all over western Alaska, from Bethel down to Naknek by foot, dogsled, sailboat, and other snow machines before settling in the community of Togiak for the remainder of their lives. My late grandfather was born up the Togiak River at Gisitgiokmute in 1923, over a century ago.

My grandmother was born in Solhuyaq, or Clark's Point, in 1929 and was raised between Aleknagik and Togiak. It wasn't that long ago our people had no contact. Our people lived and still live off the lands and waters of the greater Togiak and surrounding areas. My family, like many others from Doyukoyak, have participated in the harvest of Togiak herring for thousands of years. There is archaeological evidence of my people harvesting herring dating back over 1,000 years ago across the bay from what is now the village of Togiak.

My Apa, my Huluka, and Ataaqtaa, Grandpa, Grandma, and Uncle, were the first in our family to acquire herring sacro on kelp permits issued by the state in 1983. My father received one in 1984 at the age of 17. Currently, my aunt, uncle, my mom, and I hold herring sacro permits and have not been able to utilize them for 4 years. Villagers still subsist in the same areas as our ancestors, depending on where the herring are spawning, from the west side beaches of Togiak Bay down to Ozpikiak River and across the bay to Kuluqquk. Like the majority of the families in Togiak, come May we begin harvesting herring.

My family that doesn't live in the region make it a point to go home to participate and help in our subsistence way of life. My cousin is teaching her young children and She learned from watching our elders. My aunts all learned from my grandma, who taught— who was taught by her foster parents and her maternal grandmother. We were taught to utilize the entire fish, making salted herring, dried herring, and herring roe dipped in oocook, seal oil, as we had done for generations. When I think about the herring and salmon, for that matter, in our waters, I don't see a stock or a quota.

I see my grandma.

I spent my adolescent years at her side, watching her work tirelessly in her smokehouse and at her dry racks. I watched her hands move with a precision that only comes from a lifetime of providing for her family. She didn't just process fish, she was preserving our culture and our survival. To me and many from my village and surrounding villages, herring isn't unharvested. It is the foundation of the ecosystem that feeds the marine mammals we rely on for subsistence.

It is a resource my grandma taught me to respect and steward. The importance of respecting the very life that sustains our people is ingrained in us as it is passed down. If we do not honor it, we will lose it.

One of my first memories was on the back of my mother as she was choosing the thickest maluchuk, herringbone kelp, for our community and others across the state. She was one of the first in her family to hold.

Commercial herring roe and kelp permit, and her father, Bapak, was a herring gillnet fisherman. However, she has harvested herring and herring roe and kelp since she can remember, just like her mother before her. For generations, families in Togiak and surrounding communities have relied on herring and herring roe as one of the first and most important harvests of the spring. Herring are not just another fishery. They are a foundational species that supports salmon, seals, seabirds, and the broader marine system.

Our regional knowledge teaches us that when herring are strong, everything else benefits. Our seals become very fat in the spring when our herring runs are strong, leading to freezers full of seal oil. Our sea ducks become very fat in years of abundance, and in years we have less return, they have little fat on their bodies. Elders and harvesters in Towiak know the spawning beaches, the timing of the runs, the winds that bring the fish into the bay, and the behavior of birds and marine animals that signal healthy returns. In the most recent years, perhaps it's due to no commercial harvest, our beaches are lined with gold after the herring spawn.

During years of heavy commercial harvest, herring roe and kelp are much more difficult to find. This knowledge is cumulative and place-based. It comes from watching the same water over decades, not just a single survey season. In Togiak, we have seen how sensitive herring can be to environmental shifts. When the waters are warm and calm during the herring spawn much sooner in the season, they spawn several times, and my grandmother would always tell us to wait for the third spawn of herring, when the maluchuk are thick and before they start to grow eyes, which makes them taste slightly off.

The warming waters make their eyes appear sooner and leads to less herring roe and kelp harvest. Herring roe and on kelp to be harvested. If the herring are overharvested, we may not get the thick herring roe we once relied on. Also, with the warming waters, we have noticed that the storms are more frequent and longer lasting, which in turn creates unfavorable conditions to harvest herring roe and kelp and make them extremely sandy. [SPEAKING TOGETHER] Subsistence harvest in Togiak is guided by cultural rules of respect, sharing, and conservation.

It provides food security in a region where store-bought food is expensive and often unreliable. We often barter our beautiful thick herring roe and kelp kelp and sakra for muktuk, salmonberries, walrus, and other native foods we did not get that year or cannot harvest. The store in town oftentimes have delayed delivery leading to loss of goods and very expensive groceries where one bag of groceries with milk, eggs, butter, and bread is nearly $150. Our herring also sustains cultural practices teaching youth how to harvest herring on kelp and whole herring, processing their first fish, and understanding seasonal cycles. My daughter's first fish she caught was a herring.

She helped me process over 5 totes of herring. She learned how to fillet, soak in salt, hang in smoke. She then shared it with her grandma who could not believe a 2-year-old helped do all that. She knows when the air feels calm during the spring that her malutjook are ready.

We have also noticed a decline in our king salmon and chum runs. By the end of May, our fish racks and fishers would be full with nearly 150 king salmon. Now we are lucky if we catch 10 the entire summer. Our river used to be lined with spawned-out chum by the end of July and August. These last few years, we've only seen a handful of chum spawned out on the riverbeds.

As I have been told by our elders, our fish feeds our lands and the animals, and as soon as we may see— and soon we may see the impacts and the decrease of spawned-out fish along the riverbeds. In closing, we protect our foods, first foods of the year. We protect our spawners. We protect the beaches. Traditional knowledge teaches precaution when conditions are changing and uncertainty is high.

We reduce pressure, not increasing. When thinking about our actions today, I want each of you to think about our daughters cutting their first fish and ensuring that their daughters have that same opportunity. Kiyana, for the opportunity to share a perspective on our way of life. Kiyana, thank you for both being here today. Questions?

Well done. Nels Alexie, John McIntyre.

Good morning. Welcome, gentlemen.

Introduce, introduce.

I miss my grandma.

Otgar Nelson Lexie, Schülerin der Rettilekso.

Eigene Tochter, nie zum Glück.

Uproch kam in 1971, nahm mir nie zu tun. Hans-Rahm Korten, Duke of Gloucester, Astronaut.

[SPEAKING OJIBWE] Nels is the traditional chief of the Association of Village Council Presidents, and my name is John McIntyre. I'm the traditional and cultural liaison for the ABCP. I'm originally from Eek. I'm a tribal member of the native village of Eek, which is situated at the mouth of the Kuskokwim River. Nels talked about how in the 1970s he heard of somebody running for a seat in the legislature telling people, "Do not get rich fast, because if you get rich fast, you're going to be depleting the resources.

To hold back, and it's the same teaching our people have been taught, is that you take only what you need so that you could survive the winter or survive the year and only take what you need. [SPEAKING OJIBWE] [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Some years after that, he heard of a place where there was good fishing, a place where people can make money and make a living off of commercial fishing.

[FOREIGN LANGUAGE] He's also heard that the equipment for fishing improved, where people can catch more fish now with the improved equipment that that was being used during that time. [SPEAKING OJIBWE] And then afterwards he heard that after commercial fishing was introduced He heard that and saw for himself that the salmon that were coming into our rivers were becoming less and less. [SPEAKING NATIVE LANGUAGE] [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] And then he was told and he heard our rivers are closed because there's no more fish coming. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] What are our people going to eat after the fish is gone? We were told, our people were told that to keep our oceans clean, and to keep our rivers clean so that our fish can return to feed our people.

But now it's getting harder and harder for our people to go out and fish because there's no fish coming in. [SPEAKING OJIBWE] Our ancestors have told us that The ocean, we need to keep our ocean clean and also to not overtake what has come out of our rivers after the fish spawn.

Make sure that people know that we need to tell people that do not overtake what treats our people. [SPEAKING NATIVE LANGUAGE] It's rare that Ghana would emerge big moon, for Corona emerged big moon, came new lingo moon. Ruhu, sudung, sudani, natmun, ayat, kamkhenun, ruhuna, lutung, witalutung.

There's a place called the throat, and our people believe that everything has a spirit and has a physical body like a human being. And there's a throat in the Aleutian chain where the fish come through. To feed our people. And when they come, they're coming into the Bering Sea, which is also called, in Makpik, the peaceful sea. And so Nels is saying that to try to not overfish that.

Where the fish are coming through the throat to where it comes to our body through the Kuskokwim River, and then where they spawn, which is the stomach. And so that we need to make sure that we have fish for the future and the future generation. [SPEAKING NATIVE LANGUAGE] Bingayun, Igearat, Mununaki, Pikiji, Nangnakseksu, Igearat, Nagat, Plugovert, Ikneachtukulutung, Umugriakunatshi.

We're told to keep our oceans, our rivers clean so that the future generation will survive, also survive like our ancestors did, which are dependent on salmon to feed our people. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] [SPEAKING NATIVE LANGUAGE] How long am I going to wait to feed my family and myself when all the fish are gone? And less and less fish are coming to our rivers. And he's asking, how long am I going to wait?

And it's going to be too late. I hate to do this. [SPEAKING NATIVE LANGUAGE] [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Our people have been connected to our lands and rivers and waters for thousands of years. It's our science. Our science that has been brought down through generations, through oral history.

It doesn't have to be written because our people have lived here long before other people from the outside came. And we know at the mouth of the Kuskokwim River there's 3 channels where fish come through, and we know how and when the fish come through because we Yupik people are spiritually connected to the fish. So this is the hardest part of my job. And I have to move on. Anything?

One final statement, please. One more. One more speech.

Imag gok su jam su ku. Una ach shakhalune inrogo yipilun. Kanitnak. Dwoi tauna ach shakhaluku piyu mit shak buk nakat inrogo kwangkutun.

Wanatu upreets.

[FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Our chum salmon are really important to our people. To our people, it's a survival fish. And Nels talked about his wife who has a history of an illness that she can't swallow. But we know as Yup'ik people, our fish like the chum salmon is like a neutral salmon where we have rich salmon that come from king salmon and red salmon, but the chum salmon is a neutral fish that was used for medicine a long time ago. And so Even one salmon during times of famine was boiled to a broth where people can drink and survive.

So every salmon counts. [Speaker:DR. LINDA SULLIVAN] [SPEAKING NATIVE LANGUAGE] Thank you both so much for being here. It's a privilege to hear from you, and I appreciate the translation. Any other questions from the board? Thank you.

Thank you. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Thank you for giving the time. I think that that is a very nice place to pause. Eva, we'll pick up with you when we come back from lunch. I'm sure— do you want to follow that?

All right. We'll go ahead and pick back up and see you back here at 1:30. Kootenai, continuing on traditional knowledge. Thank you very much.

Alright, hopefully everybody enjoyed lunch. Hopefully you got a big portion because we're going to go a little bit late today. Ava, I cost you half your audience, but I'd like to lucky me up if you'd like to provide your traditional knowledge testimony.

Welcome. Thank you. This is Eva Dawn Burke. Because I'm so young, in our protocols, I'd like my elder to acknowledge me to be able to speak on behalf of our community and actually addressing traditional knowledge.

My name is Kathleen DeManteuf. I'm an elder from Nenana, and I'd like to recognize Eva Burke to do the her testimony. Thank you.

And similarly, I brought Charlie Wright, one of my teachers and I'd say professor of the land, to sit with me. And we're right up next to each other. So we'll try to be quick and keep it short. Just want you to state your name for the record.

Thank you for this opportunity. This is Charlie Wright from Rampart. I appreciate this chance and opportunity, and I'll be standing by here and seeing them next. And I wanted to say, because you respected the elder earlier, I'll be giving up my 3 minutes of personal testimony time to make up that time for you. I hope it didn't cause any problems for you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Charlie.

Thank you. I'm Eva Don Burke. I'm from Ninana and Manly Hot Springs. I'm the executive director of Tla Dineel Del Community Group. We're a community organization that works on food sovereignty, land stewardship, community wellness, and cultural regeneration.

I am the co-chair of the Minto Ninana Advisory Committee for Fish and Game. I am the vice chair of the Eastern Interior Regional Advisory Council, and I am also the tribal seat at the North Pacific Fishery Management Council on the advisory panel. And my— I grew up out on the land hunting, fishing, trapping, so I do have that upbringing, and I also have a science background. And I really got introduced to how traditional knowledge is brought and incorporated into science and how the two can really be well paired. When I was working for Arctic Slope Regional Corporation, especially on sea ice, um, I really wanted to talk about the ocean and the habitat and all the different things that are— people are mentioning things in these different silos.

And in our work, I also work as a science and policy consultant for the Yukon River Intertribal Fish Commission. We're tasked with a gravel-to-gravel stewardship plan, and so that really takes listening to a lot of people both on onshore and offshore, on the coastline, nearshore, fishery people at the North Pacific, and in these different meetings you hear a lot from different fishermen. So I just want to acknowledge that the knowledge that I'm sharing today is collected from listening to all those people and being in those spaces and also growing up on the land and living in the way of life that is based on traditional knowledge. I have a record copy, uh, 033. I'm not going to get into a lot of detail.

I'll talk about that more, but I'm going to kind of explain some high-level things. You know, um, the ocean is very complex, and I think a lot of times we're just looking at these single species, but I really think that we need to be looking at the oceans as a whole and the interactions between the Gulf of Alaska. In fact, the interactions of the whole North Pacific, the Pacific Ocean. Traditionally, all of the indigenous people around the Pacific Ocean were connected, and they went on long voyages. And traditionally, our people gathered, we traded, like at places like Kodiak, in the lower Yukon.

We had different kind of messenger feasts where people would travel and gather and trade. We had big trade economies, and we.

Also shared a lot of knowledge about what we saw in each other's area. And in the Gulf of Alaska, you know, what's happening in springtime in these fisheries that we're talking about, it's the marine potlatch of the spring season. Every time— and I learned— started to learn about this with the whale migration and how they're following the Alaska Coastal Current and how that current brings nutrients and fresh water, brings warm water into the Bering Sea, and then that the chum salmon follow that. And they're also following the spawning migrations. They're following the herring and the pollock, and they're feeding on those young species.

And then onshore, you know, at that same time of year in the spring, the fry are coming out of their streams, their natal streams, and they're going on these journeys. And they're mapping out all the different habitat around them. And so they're— so when we're saying that, you know, salmon are highly adaptable and they have changed with the changing climate a lot. And so what we're seeing in our habitat on the Yukon is that species that might have otherwise gone to Canada are now being found in mid-river locations along the Yukon. And what we believe is happening are these new cycles.

We hear a lot about these fall floods. Well, that's part of a cycle when they're mucking out the streams and they're saturating the ground so that, like, in a year right now, when we have a lot of deep freeze, we're building this ice pack. All of these factors are working together over these years to create this new cycle. And in the knowledge that I've heard in the fisheries, salmon are on this 30-year cycle, and you can really see that in some of the data. I think it's shortening to a 20-year cycle.

I've heard this from my fellow Irish fisherman on the advisory panel about this cycle that he saw on his side of the ocean, and we saw it— we see over here in this ocean. And I think it's really important to, to know that this that these species and the environment, it can heal itself. And that taking a step back and putting less pressure on a system that's under a lot of stress can give it the most chance. And in fact, before, when we have low returns like we're seeing now on the Yukon, with some of these favorable environmental conditions, with some passage protections through key migration areas, we saw some of the highest returns in previous years where we've had low abundance, the late '90s and the 2000s. And that's all in the record Copper 33 that you can look at.

And I think I want to just add a couple more comments about, you know, in this process of understanding how Indigenous knowledge and Western science can work together to best inform fishery management decisions, We have to really understand the shortcomings of Western science in the baseline data. You know, we don't have not even two of these cycles that we're talking about that salmon run on. We don't even have data for two full of those cycles. The data collection for the Yukon begins like in the '70s and it changes, right? The quality of that data collection, the quality of the subsistence surveys and the participation.

So when we're making these decisions in here, really think about the limitations of Western science and how Indigenous knowledge has been passed down for thousands and thousands of years. And we know that the commercial fisheries have been operating in this state, even in this area and along the Bristol Bay, the shorelines of the Kuskokwim and Yukon. Those fisheries have been happening since the late 1800s. And in the Bering Sea. And so we have really no idea of the impact of commercial fisheries at all when we think about this in that larger long-term aspect.

And I think that's a traditional knowledge and Indige— Indigenous perspective that needs to be brought into the decisions we're making here today to take the Western science and the data and put some limitations on it because it's a very short time period in this much longer, deeper understanding. And, you know, some people mentioned things like, you know, the beaver's influx and the coastal storms. And this land, these animals, you know, when they're all meeting together in the spring, they're making their own plans. When they're all hatching every spring, they're making their own plans on how to survive what they're going through right now. And we as humans, we need to manage ourselves.

And I think sometimes we get into the thought of managing the resource, but this resource managed itself before we ever came along. And I just wanted to kind of talk about those points. And I didn't leave enough time. I'm not good at that. So, Charlie, you can go next.

Thank you. Thank you, Eva. Are there any questions for Eva? Miss Irwin. Thank you.

Thank you, Miss Burke, for your testimony. I was just wondering if— and I'm happy to speak with you off record about this as well on the side about about your RC, but I just wondered if you really quickly wanted to speak to the— you have a Western Alaska chum salmon index and then some other graphs that have similar trends, and I was just wondering if you wanted to speak, give some context to your, um, your RC before you leave the table. Yes, that's a great question. Thank you for the question through the chair. If you look at the Western Alaska chum salmon index, that's a measurement of basically summer chum in coastal western Alaska.

That includes Bristol Bay up to Norton Sound. And if you look at the high points of this graph and you compare it to the next one, which is the Yukon River chum salmon run size, the blue lines are the summer chum. You can see that this Yukon summer chum largely drove this western Alaska chum salmon index. And so I think sometimes I'm worried that there's a lot of minimizing the impacts of what this fishery is taking from the overall western Alaska stocks, but not realizing that we're taking this huge reporting area, right? This is— this is— we're talking about area that's half the size of Alaska and taking all those reporting groups and calling it one.

And really, if we really want to understand what we were doing, we would at least be separating out the Yukon component so we could understand the impacts in not only this fishery but the, like, the pollock fishery on specifically the Yukon stock. And in the moratorium that we're in on the Yukon with 100% stand-down, we have a zero exploitation rate on that stock. And so It's a good chance that a lot of coastal western Alaska stock moving through this fishery and the area and fishery could be in fact from the Yukon. There's a high degree of uncertainty around that. There's a high degree of certainty around, hey, if we let these fish pass and they're not fishing on the Yukon, could this really result in some higher returns on the Yukon?

And I think if you look at the spawner ratio on the next page, you can kind of really see that big high return when we had low runs and we had restrictions in this fishery and in the pollock fishery, and we also had the new cycle that I was talking about, more favorable environmental conditions. So I didn't want to get too much into that, but thank you for the question, Olivia. Okay, thank you very much. Charlie, would you like to provide your traditional knowledge testimony, please? Thank you.

First, before I start, I want to recognize all the chiefs and the former chiefs in the room and thank the peoples of this land for us to gather on their land today. I've been hearing a lot about net depth in the last few days, and if you're after reds and you know they swim closer to the surface, why use a deep net and catch kings and chums? Why not shorten depth and let salmon get back to not only the Area M streams and rivers, but all this— but all the rivers that this fishery affects? More rivers than we know Our fish is hit near Shumigan Island and Sand Point and all the way down to South Umiak before they go through the Rainy Pass and spread out across the Bering Sea to their respective rivers. Where no escapement goals are being met at this time.

The spawning grounds in the Yukon are still in great shape.

The Yukon, even in the main stem, is really in good shape yet. And the water quality is being tested and is great so far. I haven't seen anything really damaging except for some raise in turbidity in a few creeks. But I have seen salmon short-circuiting the streams near my village in Rampart in the heat stress year of '19. And since then, chums with genetics from Canadian fall chum have been found by the department in some other waterways near, near Rampart.

So we watched the kings in the Big Minook Creek. They were healthy, strong fish living in great rearing grounds and seen later in the next winter in March while ice fishing and beaver trapping in these spawning grounds. These fish were really strong. They could swim uphill chasing spring coming out of the side of the mountain. The road is cut into that side of that mountain and we could.

See them 100 feet almost straight up on the side of the hill in the puddle going across the road. These fish are strong. They're only this big and they swim up 70 degrees or 70 whatever degrees that is almost straight up and down.

So this year is a record cold year. This will help our fish. This will bring colder water and great nutrients that ice creates. The mountains and the creeks will be full of glacier. They'll freeze to the bottom this year.

And the glacier will get thick and they'll keep the waterways cold. The—.

There's a large ice cap in the Bering Sea this year coming down and the winter's not over yet. That'll bring better food, colder water, and that will neutralize the bad algae from growing and affecting the salmon in the area in the Bering Sea.

If we do this, this will help us, give us a chance to help carry the burden of conservation. The whole ecosystem is being affected in any of our Anadromous streams. Up to 250 species will be affected in that Anadromous stream. The sudden shock of no fish on an ecosystem is like being hit by a tsunami wave. We have no moose, no caribou, and because of overhunting, we have no fish to eat.

We are in no other mean situation in a lot of our communities along these waterways. The Yukon and contributaries, please let some fish go by into the spawning grounds. With all the cold, with the cold winter, this is our best chance of a great return in a long time.

The last good chum run I seen in the Yukon River was 2017, over a million fish, and the first third of those fish were really good and healthy and big. Plump like a football, and the rest of them were not healthy. Their skin was yellow, they were really skinny, and their meat was pale, pale white meat. It was really sad shape they were in. But since then, you know, the returns have been coming, they've been coming back in, and we caught them in drag hooks looking for bodies behind bars, and they were big plump chums.

So I think that if we get a chance here that we can get our numbers to come back up again if we just get some fish through and onto the spawning grounds.

I think that our respective groups need to come together and talk about this in person, and we could stop sitting across the table and pointing a finger at each other. I'd really like to see that. I'd see— I'd like to see us work together and at least get something that we can all spread the burden of conservation on all of our shoulders and start helping this fish come back. I think if the— if you look at the trends, the time and trends of the cycle of the salmon. We're right in the bottom of one.

And I think this cold weather will really help if we could do something to get some fish back on the spawning ground. And I shortened my testimony a lot, Madam Chair, to accommodate other testifiers. So really trying hard to follow the rules here and do the best I can.

Thank you, Charlie. It's greatly appreciated. And I know that you've got a lot of information in your head. So appreciate you doing about 5 minutes' worth today. So thank you.

Any questions? Are you going to be around a little bit? Because I would love to see some of those conversations that you just described there at the end start to occur. So thank you. Appreciate your efforts.

Up next is Frances Thompson, followed by Virgil Umphenhauer, Chuck McCallum, and Tommy Naglaska.

Welcome, Frances.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I was hoping you would ask how I'm doing. How are you doing this afternoon? Thank you, Madam Chair, for that question. Was a good day, Madam Chair.

Accidentally used my wife's body wash this morning. Well, I'm sorry I'm not sitting next to you then. So at this moment, I'm feeling kind of bossy. And I hope it lasts all day. Thank you.

Madam Chair, my name is Francis Thompson. I'm from the village of St. Mary's. I'm also the council, Algàdjak Tribal Council chairman for the tribal government there.

This forum I have been involved in for approximately 11, 11 times. And if you times that by 3, that's about 33 years. So I've been here involved. I've noticed many behind me that I've come to these meetings with. They've aged well.

And we've aged well, kinda. Unfortunately, their fisheries continue and mine has gone away. So with that, I started fishing subsistence with my grandfather when I was strong enough and able to help him. And that was about 8 years old. When I was 12, my father first bought me a commercial fishing license just like a hunting license kind.

When I was 16, I was eligible for a limited entry permit. I had earned 16 points, and 10 points was the minimum to get a permit. I have been involved with our parents and all the good folks whom have all passed advocating for the continuation of our lifestyle as a Salmon People. Salmon was our keystone. It's half our lives.

Since time immemorial, it was half our lives and for some, their lifeblood until the salmon returned the next season. Life was about surviving the winter by preparing for the hard times by harvesting migrating birds, then followed by salmon harvesting June to August, red meat August to September. A small commercial fishery made us able to supplement the cost to get a boat, motor, and/or snow machine to participate in the subsistence lifestyle after fishing. Most importantly was wood gathering. For the winter because that's the longest season in our life in the villages.

The efforts by our elders to save the salmon has been a long time in the making, starting in the early '70s. The trawl industry and the Alaska Peninsula fisheries were taking millions combined, 2 to 2.4 million at times.

The conservation of salmon for escapement has been the goal for our— those before us so that salmon could return back in abundance.

The changes we've observed over time our fishing time decreased over the years '70s, first by time and area fishing, then it came to net mesh size depth.

And while that was happening, the area fisheries gained mesh depth, mess area or fishing area and fishing time. When they first started, it was a small area like this, the area on fishery, but in the last 60 years it has grown humongous when we in the river system are suffering.

The conditions of the fish coming back into the Yukon are marked, net marks. You see them, they're all scarred up because of too much webbing in the ocean.

They're smaller because we fished the big ones out.

They're stressed because of the river and the ocean warming. Now global warming has been recently a matter, a subject matter, saying that that's the cause of our decline in salmon.

And if that's the situation, then it's all the more reason to conserve salmon and not place the burden of conservation on the river system because of climate change.

In our community, cultural and community impacts is great.

Our poor, our hungry, half their food taken away.

Wan said, "My cupboards are bare, my freezer's half full, and when I have soup, it's flour, rice, and meat or fish. Simple." And that brings me back to my childhood, hard times.

The fishery, I hear in the area, the folks, I hear them, it's going to devastate them if any management strategy is concerned. We've heard that for time, a long time.

But doing nothing, it's hurting us. It's hurting us and now we're to where we're at. We haven't fished subsistence for the last 5 years. 20 Years in the making for coming down. No commercial fishery.

Subsistence practices and adaptations, we are reduced down to whitefish, forends.

No salmon, we see them go by.

The burden of conservation has been placed on us for 20 years and have allowed a fishery that has no stream of salmon that go to a stream of origin within their area to go spawning except for, I've heard, Chignik, but that number of fish there, and they've argued that point a lot of times, is that the fish coming back in the peninsula cannot support a volume of fishery that the area and fishery is doing right now.

Now, we've—. We've gave— we've sacrificed our time for feeding ourselves. We've sacrificed time for fishing to save the salmon.

We're hungry.

We've conserved for a long time. Now it's your turn, the Area M Fisheries folks. Your turn to save, because what we've done over the last 20 years, this summer's return is lowest on record.

So we need the board's help now. We need the council's help now. Lastly, the message for the board, for example, the Bristol Bay—. Francis, I got to ask you to wrap it up. Last comment, very last comment.

I'm wrapping it up. What I'm asking for is the 8.3% is based on Bristol Bay fish forecast. But when they report to you, it's an average of weight. If you weight this fish at 8 pounds, it'll show you less chum caught. If you weight the fish at its acceptable weight of 5.5 or 6, it'll give you more fish.

So please, I'm asking the board, please, um, try to come up with a weight, an acceptable weight number to calculate amount of fish caught. Understood. On a weight basis. Thank you. Questions?

Mr. Chamberlain. Thank you for your testimony, Francis. Um, I've previously heard you testify, and I'd like you to touch on How have harvest patterns changed for people in your region? Have you had to travel further or go out to harvest protein sources that you don't normally do? How has that affected behaviors within the villages and within the people of the community?

Harp, thank you for the question to the chair.

Harvest pattern changed dramatically. We used to harvest enough for dry fish, maybe in a one good drift in a 6-hour period. Now, with the demise in some salmon returns, for some it'll take a week if allowed, but we have not been allowed to cast nets to target chum, chinook, and any other salmon, only whitefish.

From large 8-inch gear, 8.5-inch gear, we reduced down to 6 over time. We reduced down to 5.5 over time. And then now we're reduced down to 4 inches and at 60-foot length. That's our subsistence net now.

Thank you. Any other questions? Francis, thank you for being here. Appreciate you. Thank you.

Virgil Umphenower.

Hi, Virgil. Good to see you. Welcome back.

Good afternoon, board members and staff. My name is Virgil Umphenauer. I served 3 terms on the board. I served 17 years in the Eastern Theater, Iraq. I've been part of the Yukon River Panel of the Salmon Treaty Process since 1988.

I want to talk about how the subsistence law come about. When I came back from Vietnam, I was a sniper officer and sniper commander in Vietnam. We only sent— American Army only sent 7 sniper units to Vietnam. I commanded one of them because I was a competitive shooter. Anyway, when I came back and was released from active duty, I served as the commander of the National Guard in Fairbanks from 1971 to 1974.

In January of '72, I took my company and we went to Anchorage and supported both the 1st and 2nd Scout Battalions for their annual training. Jack Fuller, who was the commander of the 1st Scouts. Jack Fuller got the Silver Star and a battlefield commission on Iwo Jima. I had served 4 years as an enlisted man in the Marine Corps before I became a commissioned officer. Anyway, I told Jack, Jack, Alaska is not supporting the shooting program the way they're supposed to.

In fact, they're not doing nothing. So I would like to form a shooting program with your battalion. So we did. And so then I had— so I was associated with the First Scouts and the First Scouts was all the villages north of the Yukon River to Barrow and then from Kaltag to Fort Yukon, Arctic Village, and Vinitai. Then I got trans— after 3 years I got transferred to the First Scouts and I was intelligence officer and then we— I formed a combat rifle team.

We placed as high as 6th nationally. Jack Fuller wanted to— he retired from the Guard in '78, I think it was '78. Anyway, he ran for legislature. He wanted to get a subsistence law to protect subsistence for the villagers into law, and he got over 90% of the registered voters in the whole district. And he is the guy that got the subsistence law passed in the state of Alaska.

So I've had a lot of association with all the people in the villages for many years, going back all the way to '72.

And I bought a fish wheel permit in 1984. 'Cause I wanted to do something that we could do with the kids. Anyway, and I could— after I bought it, I found, well, you're at the mercy of the fish buyers. Well, I was a carpenter millwright. I knew how to build stuff.

So I built my own little fish plant in North Pole right next to the house. And I was operating in '85 buying fish. And so I was buying fish on the Tanana River from Nenana. And then I buy fish from Rampart and Stevens Village. The village is right up by the bridge.

And in '88, I got appointed to the Yukon River— or the Salmon Treaty Group.

And I— we had formed Yr'rdfaa in 1990. And I was the chair of the Upper Yukon because we had two co-chairs for Yur'kva. I was the chair of the Upper Yukon.

From 1990 until I got appointed to the Board of Fish in '94. But anyway, we finally got a salmon treaty. Well, we had an interim treaty for 3 years. Then the Lower Yukon screwed us up and we lost it because they didn't want to let the Canadians have any more fish after rebuilding. And we had our disaster in the year 2000, which we had the lowest runs of kings and chums both since they had been able to count them.

On the Yukon, and that's the year we had to have the mega meeting because our budget had been cut by 35%, and we did AYK, ARA-M, and Bristol Bay in one meeting. It used to take to do this meeting right here, it used to take 15 days minimum to do it. Anyway, and so we passed our proposal, or I mean, we passed the treaty got both sides to agree to a treaty in April of 2001.

And right now, being this— what's happened has happened. We have not fished in the Upper Yukon subsistence period since 1990— 2019. Was the last time we fished. And the commissioner and the head of the Canadian delegation, they signed an agreement last year where we will not fish for any Chinook salmon until— or king salmon— in the Yukon River, neither country will, for a full life cycle, for 7 years. Anyway, that last, unless we get over 71,000 on the spawning grounds in Canada.

But we used to put way over 100,000 Canadian-origin Chinook salmon who had come into the Yukon River. And the overall numbers would be anywhere from 350,000 to 400,000 Chinook salmon. But the chum salmon are totally in the damn toilet too. And so what has basically has happened is— I'm a hunting guide as well, spend lots of time in the field. I see what happens when there's not enough fish.

The fish are the baseline of the environment in Alaska.

The wolves from the Toklat Pack That's the ones we have the big controversy over all the time because they see, can see them once in a while from the road at the park, Denali National Park. The Park Service puts radio collars on them. They've been doing it since the '80s that transmit a signal, a mortality signal, so they can go out and see what killed the wolf. They run the bones through the through a machine to figure out what the annual diet of the wolves are. The Toklat Pack, the annual diet is 24% salmon and that's Toklat River salmon.

And the one with the most annual diet of salmon was 41% salmon annual diet. But anyway, that's the backbone of the whole ecology and if If those wolves and the bears are not getting enough salmon to eat, the next easiest thing is calves of moose and caribou. So it's really got things. It's a big, far-reaching thing. I want to say just a little bit more here.

Military officers are held to very high ethics. You're rated on your ethics when you get your efficiency reports. And one other thing that you're rated on, a leadership trait, is moral courage. I want to give you the definition, just a second. The definition of moral courage is doing what is morally right regardless of who gets mad at you and how mad they get at you.

And this is simply cultural genocide, what has happened. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Oppenhauer. Questions? Thank you for being here today.

Chuck McCallum, followed by Tommy Naglaska, Brian Ridley, and Sandra Ous. Hi, Chuck. Welcome.

There we go. I'm Chuck McCallum. I've been involved in the Chignik fishery and the communities there for 60 years. 31 As a commercial fisherman. I have served as the chairman or executive director of the Chuuknic Regional Aquaculture since its inception in 1991, 36 years.

I have been the fishery advisor for the Lake and Peninsula Borough for 20 years. And I've been involved in these Board of Fish meetings for about 40 years. Years. My father, Charles McCallum Sr., was born to the community of Oonga in the Shumagun Islands. After his father was murdered in the line of duty as a U.S.

Marshal, my grandmother married a fisherman and the sons became fishermen. In 1950, my father moved his fishery base to Chignik and likewise my uncle Richard Sharp moved to Chignik where he served the city of Chignik as clerk and mayor and in many other roles until he passed away in 2000. Fishermen know whose fish they're catching. And so my father and uncle told stories until their dying days about where Chignik boun sakai were harvested all along the mainland and in numerous capes among the several islands in Area M. Many years ago during a Board of Fish meeting, Chignik fishermen had a side meeting with a group of intercept fishermen. And during the group discussion, one non-Chignik fisherman spoke up and essentially said, "Oh, come on now.

We're all fishermen here, aren't we? We all intercept fish, don't we?" And it struck me that after all the years of meeting at Board of Fish and talking to these different fishermen, that they really don't understand Chignik. Here's the truth. By an accident of geography, ocean currents, sockeye migration patterns, and the fact that Chignik is managed solely on the abundance of local stocks, Chignik fishermen can't compete in this sockeye intercept game, if that's what you want to call it. Not even close.

Year in and year out, about 75% of Chignik area's sockeye harvest is harvested in the relatively tiny area of Chignik Lagoon. Chignik's other stocks— pink, chum, coho, and chinook— make up on average only 15% of the total value of a typical salmon season. What that means is that Chignik fishermen know deep down in their bones that they are totally dependent on the health of those two sockeye runs going up through Chignik Lagoon, Chignik River, and Black— to Black Lake and Chignik Lake. Out of that knowledge, Chignik fishermen have grown to be conservation-minded and terminal fishery-minded.

After statehood, Chignik stocks were depressed, as many areas were. Under ADF&G's rebuilding plan, Chignik fishermen willingly sat on the beach for multiple years to allow enough escapement to get back up to Black Lake and Chignik Lake so that they could again provide a living to the Chignik fishermen and the future generations of Chignik fishermen.

And the sockeye runs were rebuilt, and Chignik fishermen were proud that they had a part in the sacrifice of that rebuilding. And that lesson was passed down to future generations, and it's still rooted deep into the fishermen and the local communities to protect our salmon and our salmon habitat. An example of this stewardship can be seen in an event in the late 1990s When the department opened the Chignik fishery in June, when they reached the low end of the interim escapement goal, because they believed that enough sockeye were coming into the Chignik fishery. Chignik fishermen, out of their shared traditional knowledge, felt strongly that the fish were not coming. And so, The fishermen decided to stay on the beach.

Although the season was legally open, they refused to fish out of their conservation mindset and their belief. Well, you probably guessed since I'm telling the story that the fishermen were right. And indeed they were. A couple days later, ADF&G closed the season because they'd fallen further behind the interim escapement goals even though we weren't fishing.

In fact, the season remained closed for the rest of the month before the early run escapement was actually met.

In a more recent example, when Chignik's entire sockeye run was failing at a previously unimaginable level in 2018, the people of Chignik chose to forego subsistence in order to— in an effort to get as many sockeye as possible through the weir. Now that is a conservation mindset. Sometimes at a Board of Fisheries meeting, Chignik fishermen will sometimes support a more restrictive policy than the department recommends or expects. And I recall surprised ADF&G staff coming up to us and saying, you do realize, don't you, that you will get less fishing opportunity if you choose that option? Yes, we do realize it.

But in our minds, the fish come first. Otherwise, our future selves and the next generations won't have the opportunities that we did. It's my observation, developed over 60 years of experience, that a typical intercept fisherman believes that they cannot possibly harm any of the sockeye stocks that they intercept. They're simply too far away. Our experience supports a very different view.

Such a high proportion of all Chignik sockeye are vulnerable to intercept fishermen that you can reliably count the days when the intercept fishery opens until the fishery in Chignik suddenly drops off sharply. Chignik fishermen talk about that as just like the faucet was shut off.

Understanding this fishery dynamic, the 1977 Board of Fisheries realized that they had to guarantee some minimum harvest by Chignik fishermen, otherwise The excessive interception could simply eviscerate the Chignik fishing economy. This reality has only further galvanized the Chignik mindset of conservation of our sockeye stocks above all else. And this is Chignik's viewpoint. Thank you for your time.

Thanks, Chuck. Any questions? Appreciate your comments today. Next up is Tommy Naglaska.

Welcome, Tommy.

Thank you. I would just like to thank the Board of Fish and the staff for letting me present my traditional knowledge and You know, it's a really good thing and how it's being done, and I think we'll get a point across of what we're really trying to reach. You know, I grew up on the Yukon River. I've been in a lot of different capacities with the state, Fish and Game, Alaska Village Electric Corporation, Goniyou, TCC, And, you know, since the '80s, we've been fighting for what we really want. And to this day, we're finally making headway a little bit, I think.

We finally got a footprint in the door. And I would like to see that keep on going. You know, as growing up on the Yukon River, we used to prepare, we used to live the four seasons: summer, fall, winter, and spring. And, you know, summertime was the main, main one, gathering our subsistence needs and our fish for our long winter nights and cold nights. You know, it really reflects the hard work that we put into what we gather.

And I just, you know, I would just like to thank all the people that came before me, that's going to come after me. We got a lot of different points, but we're all trying to target one thing, is to bring our fish back and save our fish. You know, I've been through cancer and it's hard. And, you know, a lot of people are battling now because, you know, their traditional foods is disappearing. And we'll have to rely on store-bought processed food.

A lot of people aren't used to that. And it's just been an ongoing thing.

What we're doing here is we're really trying to hammer out how we can come to a consensus and work together. And, you know, it's all for the good, not to try and beat up on one another. It's— we'll all generate to one thing, is have a healthy lifestyle. And, you know, it's just our fish, No more fish in the creeks, weather patterns changing every year, nothing but rain and wind. And every year I see the freshwater creeks getting washed out, washed out by the rain.

And all the bears that used to be along the creek, They're all coming into the village and, you know, it's just, we have to get rid of them, otherwise they're going to hurt somebody. And, you know, people don't really do that too because it's a food source that we rely on in the fall time. We try to get black bear every year. But now, no fish, no more black bears. Grizzly bears are hunting them, killing them, and it's just been an ongoing process year after year.

And, you know, it's just our fishing streams are not as healthy as it used to be with all the rain and And lack of fish, the ecosystem is getting depleted out due to erosion. You know, everything getting covered, nothing really responding. All the fry is gone every year. Last year we didn't even see a fish in the creek, Chaltec Creek. [Speaker:CHIEF_ALFRED_BREWER] Yeah.

This, even the Old Village Creek, about 3 miles below Kaltek, we check it out, we walk it, and usually a lot of grizzly bears in there, but don't even see bear tracks along the creek no more. No more fish. And, you know, with all the All the studies and all the genetic testing that's been going on for the last 25, 30 years, I would like to see how that reflects on what we're going through today. And, you know, I sat on the Métis Yukon Advisory Committee for a good 10 years and Seems like what we want, we have to fight harder and harder for now, and we have to just choose one topic to get it going and stay with it just to meet our needs. And, you know, it's getting harder and harder to fight.

People are getting tired. We're losing all our Elders, everybody's aging out and hardly any younger people is stepping up to the plate to try to keep this going, to keep our livelihood going. But a lot of people never grew up around fish and they don't really know what we're fighting for. So it's just one of those battles too, and I would like to say thank you for your time and yep.

Thank you for your comments. Any questions? Appreciate you. Thank you for being here. Okay.

Bryan Ridley.

Welcome back, Chief. Good to see you. Thank you.

Thank you to the chair and board for the opportunity to speak today. My name is Brian Ridley. I'm a tribal member of the Native Village of Eagle, which is on the Yukon River at the Canadian border. This is important because most of my native relatives live in Canada, where they haven't been able to fish for 2 decades. I've had.

The honor of being the chief chair of the Tanana Chiefs Conference for the last 4 years. TCC is a tribal consortium that serves 42 tribal communities, including 37 federally recognized tribes and more than 18,000 Alaska Native people in interior Alaska. Our villages are remote, many without road access, and residents must overcome significant challenges to sustain healthy communities, support our children, and care for our elders. For generations, our communities met these challenges through the strength and access to traditional foods. Today, these challenges are magnified by the absence of salmon on the Yukon River.

I'm here to share the cultural significance of salmon to the tribes in the TCC region and to describe how recent declines have impacted our communities culturally, physically, mentally, and the many ways we are working to fill the growing gaps. For thousands of years, salmon anchored our way of life. Western scientists have documented our deep relationship with salmon extending back 11,000 years, the earliest evidence of human-salmon connection in North America. Salmon have nourished our people since time immemorial, shaping how we teach our children, how we relate to the land and water, and how we maintain the knowledge systems that sustain and guide our communities. Salmon are not simply food.

They are part of our identity, ceremonies, and ways of relating to the natural world. Since 2020, Chinook and chum salmon runs on the Yukon River have collapsed to the point that requires repeated subsistence and commercial closures. A river that once brought families together in the summer and provided for both subsistence and commercial harvest opportunities now is silent and empty. Families who once spent their summers cutting, smoking, and drying fish now stay home, and the younger generations are increasingly leaving their home communities in search of work and other opportunities. Salmon once accounted for over half the annual subsistence harvest in parts of the TCC region.

Families depended on salmon to fill caches and freezers for winter. With low returns and harvest closures, Households must turn to expensive store-bought foods or shipping food in villages that are located far from well-stocked grocery stores that have fresh fruits, vegetables, and meats. Foods from the grocery store cannot replace the nutrition and cultural significance of wild salmon. Other fish species cannot fill the gap. The decline in salmon has resulted in tighter regulations and gear restrictions.

Such as a requirement for 4-inch mesh nets that many households do not own or can't afford. Hunting also does not replace the role of salmon, as opportunities have declined in traditional areas in addition to increased trespass and pressure from outside hunters. But that's a story for another board's failures. The loss of salmon also impacts the wider ecosystem. Bears, wolves, foxes, birds, and insects rely on salmon as a primary food source.

Nutrients from salmon carcasses and wildlife feces help fertilize forests and sustain rivers and ocean ecosystems. Without salmon, these natural relationships weaken, affecting species that have been interconnected for generations. This past summer, TCC received numerous reports from tribes of increased bear activity in the villages, far more than in previous years due to the salmon shortage. To keep people from going hungry and to maintain some connection to salmon, tribes and tribal organizations have been forced into impossible position to spend millions of dollars to purchase and distribute replacement salmon from outside the region. In the TCC region, the cost of acquiring, transporting, storing, and distributing salmon is nearly $2 million a year for over 90,000 pounds of salmon.

Harvesting salmon is ceremonial. The practices of what is eaten, what is left untouched, and the proper ways to cut, dry, and smoke fish are teachings passed from elders to youth. Every family member has responsibilities at fish camp, and the work builds skills that strengthen individuals, families, and our self-sufficiency. Our bodies and rhythms are shaped by the land, and our people feel the pull towards fish camp. When fish camp does not happen, many describe a profound imbalance and a sense of loss that nothing else replaces.

Fish camps have always been seasonal villages where elders, parents, and children process salmon and shared language. Stories and traditional ecological knowledge are passed down. Today, many camps sit empty or abandoned because the salmon are too few to justify the time, fuel, and expense of opening them. Continued closure makes it difficult for families to return. As a result, the chain of intergenerational learning is weakening, and young people risk growing up without the memories and skills that have defined our people for over 11,000 years.

As camps sit idle, they have become more vulnerable to trespass and vandalism. Reports have risen from 43 incidents in 2022 to 62 in 2023 and 84 in 2024. Families returned to find cabins broken into, equipment stolen, and the places that once held meaning damaged. Repairing these sites is costly and emotionally difficult, and each damaged camp represents lost cultural space. Opportunities to restore and repurpose camps, for example, for cultural tourism or educational programs, are slipping away.

The loss of salmon also affects dog mushing, a longstanding cultural practice along the Yukon. Dog teams were traditionally fed with salmon harvested, which was affordable and provided required protein. Mushers must now buy commercial dog food, often costing over $100 per 40-pound bag. Many families cannot afford this, leading to the loss of dog teams and the knowledge and traditions that come with them. For example, the Yukon Fall Chum Run was only 18,000 passing Eagle this last year, and I think it used to be well over 100,000.

And just Eagle alone, I think we probably harvested 5,000 or 6,000 back when I was growing up there. The health impacts of salmon decline are significant. Salmon is a nutrient-dense food rich in omega-3 fatty acids, vitamin D, and high-quality protein. Without it, families rely more heavily on processed foods high in sodium, sugar, and unhealthy fats. Research shows links between reliance on ultra-processed foods and higher risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, cancer, and cardiovascular disease.

Health providers already see these effects. Between 2019 and 2023, there was a 70% increase in prediabetes among Alaska Native patients in the TCC region. Many patients express frustration at being advised to eat more fish without legal or physical access to these traditional foods. We've even seen some elders malnourished and starving without their salmon and traditional foods. Fishing and fish camp also support mental health.

They provide purpose, activity, and connection. Many people describe feelings of grief when salmon do not return, especially elders and parents who must tell their children there will be no fish camp. They worry that our kids won't know how to live anymore. One tribal member described it as a weird depression when mid-June and July arrive and there's no king salmon to harvest. My concern is that it could contribute to higher mental health and suicide rates.

Thank you for this opportunity. Thank you. Merci.

Questions? Appreciate you being here today. Thank you. Sandra Aus.

She maybe didn't make it for weather. Okay. All right. Thank you. That is too bad.

Peter Devine.

Amy Foster. Good afternoon. Oh, sorry. You snuck up on me. I am sorry.

I didn't even see him come in. That was a good trick. All right. My apologies. Please begin.

Welcome. Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair, Commissioner. Members of the board, good afternoon. My name is Peter Devine Jr.

I am an Aleut and member of the QT Tribe of Sandpoint. I was born and raised in Sandpoint, Alaska. I am both subsistence fisherman and a commercial fisherman. I began fishing in Area M when I was 5 years old, starting with setnetting alongside my grandparents. I now have over 57 years of experience in the Shimmigan Islands.

My grandparents came to the Chimmigan Islands back in 1890. They were cod fishing out of Doris.

My traditional knowledge comes from living on land and sea with my grandparents. Through the tribe, I sit on Alaska Migratory Bird Co-management Council for 26 years now. I've been involved with our marine.

Animal Commission, you know, so quite knowledgeable about our subsistence uses.

When I was young, we lived on the east side of Unga Island in a small settlement called Hard Scratch. It was a different way of life then than what people see today. There were no freezers, there were no grocery stores. Everything we ate had to be harvested and preserved properly. Or it would not last.

Because of that, preservation was not optional, it was survival. Salmon were caught and immediately processed. Fish were cut for smoking, drying, or salting, depending on the condition of the fish and time of the year. Some were placed in salt barrels so they could be stored for longer periods. And the salt fish was used for Making pickle fish.

My grandmother would begin preparing fish for winter well before snow came. Around Thanksgiving, she would begin soaking salted fish that were preserved earlier in season. After soaking out salt, she would smoke the fish slowly, and so it would be ready for Christmas. That was part of the— our holiday traditions. We also gathered seagull eggs.

Nothing went unused. The bird eggs that were not immediately needed were— we preserved them in ways that kept them safe from spoilage. One method was burying them in buckets under the sand at the low-water mark on the beach.

The water would keep them cool and the It would limit the air exposure, so it was quite a treat to have an egg in wintertime when you ain't supposed to be eating seagull eggs.

Living in Hardscratch during the summers, I learned to harvest harbor seal, learned how to process blubber into seal oil.

Seal oil was an important food source. Rendering it required careful cutting and heating. Too much heat would spoil it, too little would not separate it properly.

It seemed to work best in a, you know, cool dark space like under the cupboard. Weather, tide, and season determined what was available. Certain shellfish were gathered in particular tides. We knew when octopus were most likely to be found under rocks. We gathered bedarkies, sea urchins, mussels, and other local foods when conditions were right.

These practices required attention to detail. You learned how to read tide charts, not from paper, but from the shoreline itself and how far the kelp stretched from where the rocks came out. You know, you kind of had your own visual, you know, levels, so. I've been active on our tribal council since 2000. Okay, we had our culture camp, we've got 25 years.

When we started the camp, we made it open to everyone, local children and youth from outside our region, Indigenous and non-Indigenous alike. Our goal was simple: share knowledge so it would not be lost. And when we figured out the age group, we started with the— we didn't want to leave anybody out, so we started preschool, you know, because most other camps, you know, they were starting the age limit, you know, like 5th grade or whatever, but we wanted all our people to be included.

Our camp is held— okay.

Okay, at Kulsh Camp I teach children how to make traditional Aleut bentwood visors called shutuks. These visors were historically used by hunters and fishermen. Making one requires patience and understanding of wood grain. The wood must be softened, bent carefully, and shaped without cracking. That process teaches patience and respect for materials.

We also go to the beach to gather food. I show how the campers— show the campers how to locate octopus, you know, looking under the rocks for signs, you know, baby crabs and, you know, buildup of the sand.

We have our camp in the second week in July when salmon are usually most abundant. We take advantage of that season to teach youth how to make dry fish, which we call ukala. They learn how to split fish properly, how to hang it so the wind passes through evenly, and recognize when it's ready. We also make pickled fish, smoked salmon, octopus we prepare into patties. Seal and sea lion I bring into camp to show the proper use.

We cut it up and share it with the elders.

At camp, I emphasize that these foods are not just recipes, they are part of who we are. Each technique has reasoning behind it, why we cut fish a certain thickness, why we hang in a certain direction. Okay. Through both commercial and subsistence fishing, I have observed salmon run fluctuate naturally. They are strong cycles and weaker cycles.

That variability is something elders talked long before modern management systems existed.

Over 57 years of fishing in the Chimgun Islands, I have seen environmental changes and shifts in storm intensity, changes in seasonal timing. In the '80s when I was fishing, We never— there was no closures in July.

We fished the whole month. You know, we had tenders bring our stuff out to us.

Okay, traditional knowledge is not just about catching fish. It is about understanding how to live in balance with what is available, how to preserve it properly, and how to ensure the next generation knows how to do the same.

Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. I have a question for you. How did you guys mark where the, the egg buckets were? Did you use a buoy?

No, I mean, you know, if you go 4 feet that way and 6 feet that way and, you know, just look for the X. The X in the tide line? Yeah. You guys are smarter than I am. I'll give you that.

That's pretty good. No, but the buckets would be buried, you know, so I mean, you know, you just distance it off.

That's neat. I hadn't heard that before. I didn't know that. I'd need a marker. Any other questions?

Peter, thank you for being here. That was really interesting. Appreciate you. Thank you. Hi, Amy.

Whenever you're ready, welcome. Thank you. I'm Amy Foster. I'm Mjöllungen with Scandinavian and Russian heritage. A tribal member of the Unga tribe.

I followed the salmon, stated a soft-spoken gentleman, his voice carrying a note of seriousness. I have access to oral histories of my people and my ancestors who had a deep understanding of the ocean and its resources. My family comes from two well-known villages in our area, Unga and Squaw Harbor, both now abandoned. My parents and grandparents also lived in Unga and Squaharbor, but now both are now abandoned. My parents and grandparents also lived Nanga Squaharbor, Pirate Cove, and Corovin, all located within the Shimmigan Islands.

Today, none of these villages are inhabited. I currently reside in Sand Point, an area with deep historical ties to fishing and marine life, supporting both subsistence and commercial activities. My personal story is also tied to the ocean. Economic factors and the pursuit of salmon and cannery work led my family and others to leave our villages over the past century. Most eventually settled in Sandpoint.

My father, uncles, and grandfathers fished for salmon across a wide range from Kodiak to Metropoleña, through the Aleutians, and all the way to Bristol Bay. Personally, from age 12, every summer in June, my family would drift fish for salmon for 5 weeks. I then spent July setnetting at Setom, followed by a short period of beach seining from July and August before resuming setnetting again until mid-October. My husband and I continue setnetting along with our 3 children and grandson. As Unangan people, we continue to inhabit our ancestral land despite centuries of attempts to eradicate our culture.

Historical evidence of us inhabiting the land that we live on reaches back to before the first encounter of the Russians in 1841. And the first records of a vessel making landfall on Unga during 1780 and 1781.

Our lifestyle was flexible and place-specific, adapting to specific places and circumstances, and before outsiders made contact, we fiercely protected territory and resources. Stories told to us towards the entrance of Onga Village stands a high stone pillar perpendicular on all sides, on top of which there is a flat area of about 100 square yards in size. The landmark called Cross Island is noted because in times of civil strife and wars amongst our neighboring people, our ancestors saddled out there and concealed themselves from the enemies, all in a means of protecting their territory and area, which was rich in fish and marine life. We built the most sophisticated and advanced culture in the world, shaped by salmon, which has always been vital to our identity and way of life. For our early ancestors, salmon was revered as both sacred and essential, a primary source of nutrition, integral into the ecosystem, and powerful symbol of the connection between the Nungans and the natural world.

Our ancestors harvested with bone hooks, seaweed lines, stone spears, whale sinew, dip nets, and arrows. Preservation was through fermenting, smoking, and drying to ensure eating during off-season periods. Our eyes see evidence of early settlements visible along the shoreline near salmon fishing locations. When the fishing is slow and the weather is calm enough for us to reach the beach, we like to stretch our legs by exploring the shores. As we walk along the beaches, tide pools, and salmon streams, we often come across oles, spear and fish weights scattered around.

Adjacent to these finds of artifacts are evidence of early Yung'angun villages still visible along shorelines near contemporary salmon fishing streams. With coastal erosion evident in the area, you will stumble upon an old Yung'angun midden site where layers of clam and mussel shells, bones from seals, sea lions, birds, and fish including salmon vertebrae and bones are present. We do know archaeological data remained limited until recent years with most findings originating from significant 19th century cave excavations near Unga that yielded masks, ritual artifacts, and human remains. Initial archaeological research concentrated on the Unga area. In 1984, Louis Johnson documented 14 confirmed Aleut village sites in the outer Shermogan Islands along with plus 16 more potential sites.

Historical documentation indicates that the Alaska Peninsula and the Shermogan Islands were recognized for their abundant fish populations by Russian explorers and other early visitors. This contact was devastating to our people. Our ancestors were used as tools by the colonizers, forced to work hunting sea otters and seals for Russian export. Our people were executed for failing to provide enough furs for the Russians. Dene disease and hardship caused over 80% of the native population in the Aleutians to die.

With so few people left and seals and sea otter populations also devastated, we could no longer depend on our subsistence traditions to keep us alive. We had to pivot and participate in commercial fishing and hunting to feed ourselves and save our families. Unga played a significant role as a temporary hub during the sea otter industry and later became an administrator center in the 19th century. By the 1870s, Unga was the heart of the fishing industry, which has always been vital to the communities livelihood. Even today, most Native fishermen rely on fishing for support, with the fishing industry moving to Sandpoint.

World War II happened, and salmon fishing had a dramatic impact with the people and canneries within the Shemagan Islands, shaping both the local economy and communities. Wartime rules forced canneries to shut down, leaving only larger ones in operation. As a result, Sandpoint's canneries closed and all the fish were redirected to Skow Harbor. Following Japan's occupation of Attu and Kiska in 1942, The Aleutians and Alaska Peninsula became active war zones. Sandpoint was transferred into a military base with troops, airstrips, and defenses, leading for the restructuring of the town's infrastructure.

Fishing vessels and operations were subject to new restrictions requiring coordination around military activities, and several tradition— traditional fishing areas became limited or inaccessible. The monthly mailboat service was halted with no supplies came in and out of Unge and all the other villages. Men were skilled in navigation and knowledge of the area and operated boats taking supplies up and down the Aleutian Islands. The terror my widowed grandmother felt when Dutch Harbor was bombed by enemies on June 3rd and 4th, 1942 with her older sons on boats carrying supplies up and down the chain, not knowing where they were, or what was going to happen. And her daughter being a nurse at the hospital in Dutch Harbor when it was bombed, not knowing when they would be home, if they were safe, where her daughter was being shipped off to, learning eventually it was an internment camp in Southeast Alaska.

Families endured separation, uncertainty, and displacement, especially after the Aleutians became war zones. Our communities endured profound interruptions, particularly with those connected to the Shumagin Islands. Although evacuations primarily affected the western Aleutians, displacement and separation of families had enduring consequences, and traditional seasonal movements tied to fishing were substantially interrupted. Wage labor in canneries grew in importance for our people as established systems encountered damage. Postwar, many families did not return to the former villages, accelerating the depopulation of locations such as Unge.

After the conclusion of World War II, Some canneries did not resume at all, and fishing activities consolidated into fewer towns. Throughout all these changes— can I conclude? Yes, please. Okay. The gentleman who stated, "I followed the salmon," is correct.

We did follow the salmon from time immemorial. And with the inception of the canneries, we too also followed the salmon to the canneries. Reducing or cutting the June fishery further closures or reductions in time to fish will have a small effect on Yukonchum, but a major impact on our culture and livelihood. I did submit my original testimony as an RC, and thank you very much for listening to my story. Thank you for telling it, Amy.

It's really interesting. And I have a— you know, my grandfather's captain, those supply ships in the same area too. So there's a lot that we have in common. Yes, there is. Yeah.

So thank you for, you know, adapting to the reduced time. I appreciate it as well. Thank you. Are there any questions? Again, thanks for being here.

Ruth Hoblet, and then I think we will take a short break.

Welcome, Ruth. Thank you. Looks like you have some good company with you. Yes, I do. Good morning— afternoon, Chair and members of the Board.

My name is Ruth Hoblet. I was born in King Cove and later made my home in False Pass with my husband. I am an elder, an Aleut, member of the village of False Pass, native village of False Pass, and a third-generation fisherman. My children became fourth generation. Now my grandkids are going to be the fifth generation connected to this way of life.

My traditional knowledge comes from living it, from growing up around boats, nets, smokehouses, and from listening to my dad and other elders talk about the sea. Subsistence fishing in Alaska became thousands— began thousands of years ago with Alaska Native cultures relying on local fish and wildlife for survival, tradition, and sustenance for generations. While practice is ancient, formal legal management and prioritization of subsistence for rural residents began in the '70s. My dad is 100 years old. He fished well into his 80s.

He was born in King Cove, spent nearly his entire life on the water. I learned by watching him. Those weren't things written down. They were things we learned by paying attention. My dad's life on the water began in a very different time.

His first boat was called Maree Gee, a small Bristol Bay boat with an 18-horse gas engine that only ran about 5 knots. It was originally 32 feet long, but they cut it down to 30 feet. Boats then did not hold much fish and speed was limited. Fishing requires patience and careful timing because you could not outrun weather or chase fish long distances. Later he owned a larger vessel called the Sako.

He tendered in Bristol Bay, setnetted and pursained from that boat. In those years fishermen adapted constantly, switching between fisheries depending on what was available. He also crabbed his boats when crabs were strong. He told stories about bringing in a whale that had become entangled in a crab pot line. The whale drowned and drifted.

It was around 20 feet long, possibly a sei whale. Those experiences taught him how interconnected marine species are and how gear interacts with the environment.

His parents, Axel Bendixen and Annie Yutik, lived in Pavlof Bay. At that time, families relied not only on salmon but also on fox trapping. They trapped fox on Churney Island, selling pelts to pay for leases and supplies. Fur traders and other world travelers through and trade goods. It was a mixed marine economy—cod, salmon, fox, and subsistence altogether.

In the early 1900s, Pacific American Marine Fisheries operated salt cod stations at places like Thin Point, Marshovy, and Ikatan before converting many of them into salmon canneries. My dad worked through transitions in fisheries from cod to sardine seining, from building traps for Peter Pan to commercial salmon. He saw entire fisheries rise and change. Those stories were not just history, they taught us that the marine environment has always required flexibility. Fishermen did not rely on one species alone.

They adapted based on what the ocean provided. When I became a vessel owner myself, I understood that fishing is not just about catching fish, it is about responsibility. Responsibility for your crew, responsibility for the safety of your family, responsibility for the resource. Over the decades, I have seen salmon runs fluctuate. There are years when fish come strong and steady.

There are years when they are lighter. That pattern of variability is not new. My father talked about similar cycles when he was young. One of the most important pieces of knowledge I carry Is that salmon have timing patterns that shift slightly each year depending on environmental conditions. Wind direction, water temperatures, even the amount of daylight and storm activity can influence when fish move through.

We learn to adapt without panic. Smoking salmon has always been a part of our household. The smell of smokehouse is a part of summer in our community. Smoking is not only preservation, it is teaching children to learn to split the fish correctly. They learn how to hang it so air circulates.

They learn that some fish are better suited for certain preparation depending on fat content and timing. Early season fish often handle differently than later fish. That is something you only understand after years of handling them. It is not the old— I don't never know that word. Theoretical.

Theoretical. And it is physical knowledge. I've also observed changes in weather over my lifetime. Storms can intensify quickly. Weather windows sometimes feel shorter than when I was young.

That affects how we plan trips and how long boats stay out. But what has not changed is the connection between families and the resource. In our home, fishing was never separate from daily life. Children learned early how to coil lines, how to clean fish, how to respect the equipment. They learned that salmon is not something to waste.

Every part is used for food and for sharing. We also learned that you never assume tomorrow will be like today. That humility has always been part of traditional knowledge. My grandchildren are growing up in a different world than I did. Technology is different, boats are different, communication is faster, but the core knowledge of watching, listening, and respecting remains the same.

When I think about 4 generations in one family, I think about continuity. I think about my father's stories of fishing in open skiffs, then my children navigating modern vessels. The tools changed, the ocean did not become predictable. In False Pass and King Cove, families are tied together through fishing. Marriages connect communities.

My own life bridges King Cove and False Pass. Knowledge flows across those connections. I share this to show that traditional knowledge is not static. It builds across generations. It adapts but carries core principles: observation, stewardship, Preparation and respect.

Thank you for listening. Thank you for sharing. Any questions? Appreciate your being here today, and thank you. Thanks for bringing your family with you.

I think it's a good time to take a little bit of a bio break. It's 3:10. Let's come back on the record at 3:30 and continue our way through traditional knowledge. Thank you.

Okay, welcome back everybody.

The time is 3:33. We're going to go ahead and continue on with traditional knowledge reports. Next on my list is Dolores Cochitin, followed by Marvin Mack. And Stanley Mack. And then Gilda Shelikoff.

Is Dolores here? Hi, Dolores. Welcome. I'm not Dolores. I'm her daughter.

She did not make it out of King Cove due to illness. Okay. If it's okay that I read her testimony. Yes, ma'am. Go ahead.

Dolores Kachootin is from King Cove. Good afternoon, Chair and members of the board. My name is Dolores Kachootin. I live in King Cove. My husband is from False Pass, and through marriage, our families are connected to both communities.

I have 4 daughters and I serve as an instructor at regional culture camps where I teach traditional food preparation. And my traditional knowledge comes from many years of preparing salmon and other traditional foods and from learning by watching my parents, grandparents, and other elders in our community. It also comes from teaching youth and seeing how knowledge continues when it is practiced. In King Cove, when salmon arrive, it changes the pace of daily life. Families shift their attention toward processing and preserving.

The work begins immediately. Salmon preparation is not something done casually. It requires attention, timing, and understanding of the fish itself. Not all salmon are the same. Early season fish can feel different from later fish.

Fat content varies. Flesh firmness varies. The way a fish is cut depends on how it will be preserved, whether it will be dried, smoked, smoked, jarred, or frozen. These decisions are not random. They are based on years of observation.

When I teach at culture camps, one of the first things I tell young people is to look closely at the fish before cutting. Feel the texture. Notice the thickness. You know, pay attention to the color. Elders taught us that the fish tells you how it should be handled.

Splitting fish correctly is important. If it is cut unevenly, it will not dry properly. If it is hung too close together, air cannot circulate. [Speaker:JENNIFER_MCKINNEY] If smoke is too heavy, it can harden the outside before the inside cures. Weather also plays a role.

Humidity, wind, and temperature affect how long fish must hang and how smoke should be tended. At camp, youth ask why we hang fish a certain way or why we adjust the smoke depending on the day.

Answer is always tied to observation. If the weather is damp, you adjust. If the wind shifts directions, you adjust. If the fish are particularly oily, you adjust. Traditional knowledge is flexible.

It is not a fixed recipe. It is the ability to respond to conditions. I also teach that salmon preparation is community work. It is rarely done alone. Families gather.

Elders sit nearby and give guidance. Children begin with small tasks like rinsing fish, carrying wood, stacking racks, and over time, those small tasks become larger responsibilities. That is how knowledge moves from one generation to the next. In King Cove and False Pass, traditional food practices are part of our seasonal rhythm. There is a time for harvesting, a time for cutting, a time for smoking, and a time for storing.

These activities structure our community life. I have observed that youth who participate in food preparation gain more than just a skill. They gain patience, understanding of where the food comes from. They learn respect for the efforts and for our lands and waters that provide for us. And as indigenous peoples, as Aleuts, as Unanga people, adaptation is part of our knowledge system.

Elders always said you must be ready to change depending on conditions. I'm connected to both King Cove and False Pass. Families here travel between communities, and fishing techniques are shared, even when preparation styles Though the techniques differ slightly, the core principles remain the same: respect the fish, observe the environment, and teach the young. My daughters were on boats with us by age 6 and worked every summer until they went off to college. Traditional foods are not only about nutrition, they are about identity.

When youth learn to prepare salmon, they are learning who they are, where they come from. They are learning that their community has skills and knowledge that have lasted generations. When I stand in a smokehouse or at a cutting table, I remember standing beside my mother and other women in our community. I remember how they corrected my cuts, how they told me to slow down, how they explained why a certain fish needed more time. Now I am the one explaining those details to my grandchildren and other youth.

This continuity is important To our Unangan and Aleut communities, traditional knowledge lives in the details. In our region, salmon connects communities. It connects elders and youth. It connects our past and our present. Thank you.

Thank you for being here to deliver your mother's message. Any questions? Appreciate you. Marvin Mack.

Followed by Stanley Mack.

Good afternoon. Welcome.

Thank you. My name is Marvin Mack, born and raised in King Cove. Fish most of my life and had a very busy life. Been on the Lucian Seasboro for 24 years. First meeting ever we first start coming to was down in the Fourth Avenue Theater years ago, and this is when this first was starting to come about, and we've been fighting for our rights ever since.

Born and raised in King Cove, fished my life, and when it came down time for limited entry, turned around, I missed limited entry by 1.5 points to get my drift setnet and seine permit. But that was the Board of Fishery or whoever it was, the state of whatever did it, and that was the way it was. But they issued permits to a lot of other people, you know, the Russians and, and quotas and everything. But anyway, I'm here just to let you know, of all the years, like I say, I've been to every one of these meetings and I didn't make it last year and stuff. And commercial fished all my life.

In our area, we got— they put us on quotas, they put us on fish types. And, you know, and being a fisherman, Our fishermen, the people that own the boats, which I was— I didn't get the license, so I had to lease permits, which, you know, it cost me 35% off the top to lease the permit to go fishing. And I did it for all them years. Okay. Then we talk about our fishery.

Cut, cut, cut. The cannery, Peter Pan Seafoods, and they had a very big operation, but it was sad to see them go.

So where does that leave the fishermen? Right back to where we are. And our fishermen, they would hold back because of the dog count, the quota. I mean, you know, the amount of dogs. They would quit fishing, just stop.

The Seiners would just stop fishing and wait for and do a little test fishery within themselves to do what was right. So they would be, you know, the cost of dogs, you know, the chums. And so they, the red salmon, they moved to different areas, moved further down west toward, you know, Cook Inlet that way. But that's what I'm saying. The fishermen take care of themselves so much.

And the board still restricting, still restricting. And it's, you know, it's hard. And it's just like, yes, we had people form— when I was on the borough, there was a group formed. They called it Aluxa. They had the canneries do the fish and take them down.

And we'd go to the Boston Seafood Show. Every year to try and get a market. Okay, you know it and I know it, the market is what counts. We go down there in the market, we look at it. And the only Reds that were beating us was, of course, the first Reds that come in is the Copper River Reds and the closest one to Denver, Cheeknic.

But then, you know, we're not talking intercepting Copper River. I hope they're not hollering at us. But all of that comes into fact. And all of a sudden now, King Cove, a population of 900 and some, our students don't even have a school no more. The cannery had to shut down the processing.

And so now the cost to get our product, our product to Trident, either there or all the way to Dutch Harbor, have to pay Somebody to take them down there, and that's a 20-hour run. And now they're trying to fish another species, which the cost of fuel and everything in the city is, you know, Peter Pan is no more because of mismanagement. And the fishermen, they were, some of the fishermen, They said, "Oh yeah, we'll pay you after we sell the product." Well, that didn't work, and a lot of fishermen out there lost hundreds of thousands of dollars, and they ain't even gonna never see it again. But we are still fighting to survive. I went up to Naknek.

The reason? I go to King Cove every year. I'm retired, and I'm not in good shape. 'Cause of heart problems and everything. But of course, you know, they just speed my pacemaker up a little bit and it works better.

Anyway, it's not my problem. But anyway, we turned around and I, so I went up to Naknek to get subsistence fish. And I went up there and it was an experience. And the only reason I went up there, 'cause the price down to King Cove was $1,100 one way and 40,000 air miles. I could go to Naknek, or King Salmon, for $600 and 1,400, or 2,000 miles.

So I got relatives up there. I'm related to some people. My sister-in-law lives up in Manokotik. And so I went up there, and my relatives, and so I went up there to get some fish so I could put up some fish. I, up across around the corner, when they buy their fish, they come ashore with their skiffs and they got trucks that come down and buy the fish on the beach.

I went up there and they're taking these fish and a truck was stuck where they were buying the fish, so they had to bring heavy equipment down, tore up the beach, and I witnessed this. Thousands and thousands of red salmon laying on the beach, just laying there, colored. I don't know if they had eggs in them or what, but we take care of our eggs. We call it chisu, salt them and eat them raw. But I don't know, but I witnessed that last summer.

And then, you know, and they're saying that we're catching their fish, and there's bears.

Sitting up on the side, just, they get out of the way, sit up there, go down and grab a fish, go sit up in the grass a little bit. They're not worried about eating people up, they got so much fish to worry about. And so, I don't know, the fishing game up there, how does their count go? Does that go against their count? You know, do they take a count of what's in the water or what's on the beach?

And that there was my question, you know, that I wish I could get an answer. But I, you know, and I got what few fish I needed and I brought them back to Anchorage and I did, I made my smoked salmon for my winter and I, you know, and I did my dried fish and I did my jarred fish, my kibbutz fish. And but it just disturbs me.

To no end, you know. But like I say, I don't know how it's going to go. But like I say, the people down in Area M, they control that fishery. They have to. They quit fishing, totally quit fishing, or move to a different area where the reds are better.

So that's all I got to say. I just, uh, I'm upset. I wish you can give me an answer, but please give us a break. I can't afford to go home anymore, which, you know, and I just— and I used to fish out there. Thank you, Mike.

And I had to lease a permit. So, okay, thank you very much. Thank you very much. Are there any questions? Appreciate you being here.

Any questions? I don't see any. Thank you for being here. No questions. Stanley.

Mr. Stanley Mack here. Oh, there he is.

After Stanley, we will hear from Gilda Shelikoff, Theresa Smith, and Brenda Wilson. Welcome, sir. Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the board. My name is Stanley Mack. Marvin's my brother.

Well, I have to say, that's a hard act to follow. I won't. Anyway, I was born and raised as Marvin in King Cove. Just a little history for you folks that don't know King Cove. Kinko was basically started after the crash of the codfish.

The codfishing out there was in the little island called Sanak. Union Fish Company had a huge codfish station there. Most of the Aleuts in the area stayed in the north end or the west end of the island called Senec Harbor. The Union Fish Company had a codfish station in Pollock Harbor. And it was there in the 1800s until 1932.

In 1932, my father-in-law tells the story that there wasn't a codfish to be found.

And they closed that processing facility down. And my father was a codfisherman. He moved later on. The last codfishing station that was out there in the area was on Tugalda Island on Avatannik Island just south of Akutan. Dutch Harbor, mostly at Akutan.

That was the last codfish station. Like I said, 1932, the cod were gone. They found them around Sanak where they were fishing. They found these cod on Unimak Pass. They moved north.

Guess where the codfish is now?

I think there was testimony about the Ketchik Processors out in the Bering Sea, draggin' for cod and pollock. I don't know if everybody on the board knows this, but that's a new fishery.

The target fishery out in the Bering Sea a few years ago was yellowfin sole.

Fast forward, we're going to King Cove. It built in 1911. PAAF, Pacific Alaska Fisheries, was established. My father moved our family from Senec to King Cove to fish salmon. And that was the beginning of what I can dig up in all the history that I've studied on this, one of the first startings of salmon processing, canning there.

They had, back in those days, this was a territorial fishery. And they had their own boats, the company did, so they could supply them. But the big one was that they had fish traps. Not sure if you're all familiar with the fish traps that went out in the entire state. They were owned and operated by the fish companies.

But in order to get that fish trap, they had to be sponsored by an indigenous person of Alaska, meaning from southeastern to Bristol Bay. No, they didn't have any traps in Bristol Bay. They had them on the south side of the island, on the south side of the peninsula. So they were sponsored by the Aleuts out in our area. I know that for a fact.

And the Southeastern probably had the same. So the fishing started processing in 1911 or maybe 1910. But like I said, they We lived on that. That built that community of King Cove because a lot of the fishermen that were out there on Sanak moved to King Cove. And then if you just look at the progression, the other communities and down the Teshumigan Islands, there was a process, two processors, no, one processor in Sandpoint called Skinner and Eddy, and they developed into New England Fish Company.

And then there was one on Squaw Harbor. But sticking to the fishing industry, we lived it. I only wished as a child growing up that we had more resources for subsistence. As my friends up in the interior, they have caribou, moose, muskox, beaver, and you name it. That's not talking about salmon lake.

It's their— it kept them alive? I don't think so. We didn't have that. We still don't. If we wanted a piece of meat, We'd have to go 20 miles walking because there were no roads there.

We walked and packed that meat down. I can remember growing up that if you weren't— it didn't matter how old you were, but it was how big you were. And as soon as I was big enough, I was required to pack some meat. And let me tell you, 20 miles for a kid is not a very pleasant hike, but it had to be done. The only way we could preserve any kind of food like that is that if we could get out and find a herd of caribou, we'd get that and bring it back and salt it so that we'd have caribou meat for the winter.

And we'd salt our salmon so we'd have salmon for the winter. We'd dry our salmon, but to feed the entire family— some people don't like dry salmon, I love it, and smoked salmon, but that's like an appetizer. Salt salmon, salted salmon was our main stay, food at the table. And that's what we lived on.

As a child growing up, I watched the progression or the transformation of the fishing industry, particularly there at King Cove, Falls Pass. I can remember that area with the fish traps They didn't need any boats to fish there, but we worked in a cannery. I'd go down and, as a youngster, probably 12 years old, fill cases with my sister. They all had to work. But anyway, enough on that.

Just to see the transition, the entire fleet that the cannery had there came out of Puget Sound, Southeastern, Cordova, and Chignik and Kodiak. Came out in the month of June because no locals had pursane boats. And they fished in Fools Pass. This would be in probably 1951 or '50, right there around it. Oh, buzzer time.

But anyway, this is the story of the fishing down in that area. So that history of fishing is in our blood. I raised my family on fishing. They made enough money. My 3 girls fished with me.

They all went to college and got good jobs. My son and sons fished with me. And I also had my grandsons fish with me. I'm still fishing. Thank you, Stanley.

And I turned 88. Thank you. Congratulations on 88. Questions? Any questions?

I don't see any. Appreciate you being here, and I'm glad you're there to share this with us. Thank you. Gilda Shelikov.

Is Gilda here? Okay, folks, if I— I'm priming names, so please move towards the front if you know you're coming up. And ma'am, I understand you can take your time there a little bit. Following Gilda will be Teresa Smith, Brenda Wilson, and Charlie Green. Welcome.

You can sit right there and just press the button on the microphone when you're ready to go.

Okay, Madam Chair and members of the board, my name is Gilda Shelyakov. I'm an elder from False Pass, Alaska, but I actually was born in Mushovi Village which is now an abandoned village located about 5 miles across from False Pass. Up until the mid-'60s, it was our family fish camp because we still had a house there. My traditional knowledge comes from growing up between those two places and traveling by skiff across the bay from harvesting the fall and from learning by doing. Every fall our family would travel to Mashowi in skiffs and put up fish and gather berries.

It was not a short visit. We stayed long enough to prepare food properly for the winter. Salmon was caught and processed immediately. Berries were gathered and preserved. Everything has its seasons.

My brother would often stay days at a time. They hunted geese, duck, and caribou. We gathered food from— we also gathered food from the beach.

In Mashovi, we learned how to watch the tides closely. Certain beaches were only accessible by specific tide levels. Some areas were good for gathering at low tides while others were better at mid-tide. You learn these patterns by repetition and in my family we had a black lab that was trained to retrieve no matter what the tide was and he'd deep— he'd dive down and get our seal for us when it sank in the bay because we'd fish out in the out in the bay. Fall weather in that area can change quickly.

Fog can roll in fast, wind can pick up suddenly. We learned to read the sky before crossing the bay in some small boats. That kind of awareness comes second nature when you grow up depending on skiffs for transportation. Salmon has always been connected has always connected our people to both the land and sea. When salmon came in strong, family gathers, fish were cleaned, split, salted, smoked, and shared.

When salmon were lighter in their numbers, people adjusted. We never assumed one year would look like the next. In the earlier times, there was no clear separation in daily life between the commercial and subsistence fishing. Families participated in both. The same boats, the same hands, the same knowledge supported both activities.

Salmon brought in through commercial harvest also supported households and subsistence— supported households and subsistence harvest supported winter survival. The connection between Commercial and subsistence is something I grew up with understanding as normal. It was not divided in our minds the way it seems it is today. Living that way teaches you that the land and sea are connected. You do not separate the salmon from the birds or marine mammals.

Everything has its timing and everything depends on careful observation. Over the decades, I've seen many changes in equipment and processing methods and how fishing is structured, but what has not changed was that the salmon remains central to our communities. I've seen our village go through difficult times when Peter Pan Cannery burnt down and was not rebuilt. It burnt down in 1980.

False Pass became quiet for a period. There was fewer than 10 kids in our school. That period taught us how closely community stability is tied to fishing activity.

Later, after processes came in, facilities changed hands, the rhythm of work change, but all in these transitions, families continued to harvest, prepare, and share fish. When I was involved in the tribe, I made an effort to invite other Native leaders to False Pass. I believed then and still believe now that the visiting each village communities is important. When you walk the shorelines and see how other community lives, you understand their connection and to place more deeply. The only two people that came to our community were Mary Peet and Will Mail.

Traditional knowledge is not written in reports, it's lived in memory, knowing that where to land a skiff safely, where the berries grow thickest, where seals haul out on certain times of the year. Today when I took— look at younger generations, I see the core knowledge is still there. They use different tools, but they still watch the water. They still gather as families. They still respect fish from— fish from Mashovi to False Bass from my childhood to today.

The lesson has remained constant. Survival in coastal Alaska depends on the cooperation, observance, observations, and respect for the resource and for one another. From Neshovi to False Pass, my childhood to today, the lessons has remained— oh, I'm sorry. That's— wait, no. Oh, wait, no.

Lessons has remained from my childhood to today. The lessons has remained constant. Survival in coastal Alaska depends on cooperation, observations, and respect for the resources, for one another. We can't be fighting each other, having Native regions shut down and other Native regions from their way of life. Until we work together in our villages, our fights will remind me of today's Congress fighting to get a reasonable bill passed.

It's not going to happen. With the government, it's the Democrats versus the Republicans, and with us, it's the region versus region. We need to work together to come up with a better working solution. Thank you. Thank you, Gilda, for being here with us.

Any questions? Mr. Chamberlain. Thank you, Gilda, for that wonderful testimony. You stated in your testimony that you adjusted when salmon were light. Can you elaborate on that a little for me?

Well, there was times when our villages never caught hardly any fish, even the commercial fishermen. It was really scarce. A lot of people ended up owing the company money instead of making money. So in those times, we never got much subsistence.

Were you able to harvest other species, or how did you accommodate when salmon weren't there? Were there other ways to make—.

Yeah, we have— although it's hard to get caribou nowadays, we have caribou with the restrictions. There's The day declined. I can remember when caribou herds were behind our village and when we needed meat, my brother would go out there and shoot one up in the valley. And now you don't even see caribou anymore. You gotta go miles to go get it and you gotta go on a boat.

But that was one of the things we had and also geese and ducks.

Thank you so much for that. That's wonderful. That's a lot of information for me. I have one question. Okay.

What was your Labrador's name? Terry. He was a good dog. They're my favorite. We, you know, my brothers hunted seal out in the deep water and the seal sank as soon as they got shot and we just tell the dog go get them and he'd dive down no matter how deep.

Bring it back up to the skiff. I think my grandpa had one. Her name was Irma. Oh, yeah. Thank you.

Okay, thank you. Up next is Theresa Smith.

Hi, Theresa. Welcome. Hi.

I got my daughter and grandson with me. Good afternoon, Chair and members of the board. My name is Teresa Smith. I'm an ��nungen from Falls Pass, where I have lived and raised my 6 daughters. My traditional knowledge comes from living in our coastal community, from working with my hands, and from learning through participation in subsistence and cultural practices.

I've also served as an instructor I am a teacher and instructor at our regional culture camps where I teach traditional art and food preparation to our youth. Also, I fished commercially with my brothers, pursaining and gillnetting for a few years. The knowledge I share today comes from lived experience and from teachings of elders and family members before me. In False Pass, the ocean is not separate from daily life. It is a part of who we are.

From childhood, we learn to observe, we learn to notice the direction of the wind, the look of the water and the currents, and the feel of the air. Those observations guide when families prepare fish, when we gather, and how we plan for our seasons ahead. My connection to salmon is not only through harvesting, but also through preparing and preserving. When salmon comes into our community, it becomes part of our homes. It's cleaned, cut, smoked, dried, and shared.

Children learn by watching. They stand beside our parents and grandparents and beginning doing small tasks, rinsing, hanging strips, drying fish, stacking wood for the smokehouse. That is how knowledge passes. We pass the knowledge on. I also practice carving and beadwork.

Many of my designs and forms I use are inspired by the marine life around us, fish, sea mammals, tools used in harvesting. Art is not separate from subsistence, it reflects it. The patterns we create are reminders of the environment that sustain us. Through culture camps, I work with young people from across the region. At camp, we do not just talk about tradition, we practice it.

We prepare traditional foods, we work with fish, we tell stories of how things were done before modern foods, or before modern equipment arrived. We talk about respecting the resources and the people before us, our elders. Young people ask questions. Why do we hang fish? Why do we smoke it longer in certain weather?

Why is it cut differently at different times of the season?

Those answers are rooted in observation. Early season fish have definitely— have differently than— sorry, excuse me. Early season fish behave differently than late season fish. Weather changes how smoke holes Moisture in the air affects preservation. These are all details learned over many years.

I've also observed changes in the storms come more quickly now, weather, windows feel shorter. There are times when conditions shift rapidly and the effects how families plan harvesting and processing. We have learned to adapt, but we still rely on careful observation. Salmon runs themselves have always had cycles. There are strong years and weaker years.

There is always— that has always been part of living here. Elders used to say to the ocean— used to say that the ocean gives and takes and that we must be ready for both. That teaching shaped how we prepare. We do not assume that one good year means that the next will be the same. In False Pass, salmon is tied to identity.

It's tied to gatherings, to sharing, to supporting elders and who not be able to harvest themselves. When fish arrive, families come together, children, who may be busy with school or other activities learn by participating. They learn patience, they learn responsibility, they learn that food does not come from the shore— the store shelf alone, but it comes from the effort and respect. As an instructor, I see how important participation is. If youth do not have the opportunity to engage in harvesting and preparation, knowledge weakens.

Traditional knowledge is not only memory, it is practice.

Our community has always balanced subsistence and commercial fishing. Many households participate in both. The skills overlap: reading weather, handling fish carefully, understanding timing. These skills are shared across generations. I think about my daughters, learning from me as I learned from those before me.

I think about the responsibility to teach not just techniques, but values and respect for the resource, gratitude and care how we harvest and prepare. It's about continuing the teaching, and by teaching, that means protecting the resources. In our region, each community has its nuances. False Pass is now— False Pass has its own shoreline, its own currents, its seasonal patterns. What we observe here may differ from somewhere— differ from what someone observes in another place.

That is why each community's knowledge is distinct. The currents alone in False Pass in the past are much more stronger and shifts quicker elsewhere. The purpose of the traditional knowledge is to provide insight from the lived experience. My experience tells me that the salmon has always required attentiveness, flexibility, and humility. The ocean is dynamic.

We adapt to it. Our elders taught us that decisions about resources should consider not only numbers but the lived relationships people have with the land and sea. That relationship is built through practice and through cutting fish at the table, tending smokehouses, drying fish, and teaching youth at culture camps. I share this so that you understand that False Pass— that in False Pass, salmon is not abstract. An abstract resource.

It's woven into our daily life, into art, into food, into teaching, and into identity. Thank you for this opportunity. Thank you for being here to share that with us. And you've got a friend there who is ready to speak too. Yes, he is.

All right, any questions? Thank you very much for being here. Appreciate you. Thank you. Brenda Wilson, followed by Charlie Green and Rochelle Adams.

Good afternoon, Brenda. Welcome. Good afternoon.

Hello, my name is Brenda Wilson. I am a retired social worker of 25 years, but I have been a Fisher person all my life. I'm 64 years old and I've fished since I was 7 when I got my first dollar and I thought it was a lot of money. But I'm an Oonaga.

I'm a member of the Ogdoowaa tribe of King Cove. I was raised in Sandpoint and I moved to King Cove when I got married 45 years ago. I come from a long line of fishing families. My grandfather fished from the end of May through September, so we never saw him all summer long because the freight barges that took the fish would go over to the mainland from Sandpoint and bring them the supplies and the things that people had baked for them. So that was a long time that they used to be gone.

My parents fished and I fish and my children fish and I want my grandchildren to fish. My traditional knowledge comes from being raised on fishing boats and in fish camps from a very young age. I was 7 years old when I first went out for the summer on a— as a Seineur crew member. And at 19, I operated my own boat. My children grew up the same way, learning every part of gill netting from handling the lines to reading the water.

Now my son has his own boat and gillnet permit. In our family, knowledge was not taught in the classroom. It was taught on the deck of the boat, and it still is. So there is many things you can learn on a boat. It's really close quarters and you can really get at your kids and teach them a lot of issues and things that, that are traditions and cultures to our family.

So as children, we learn how to watch the surface of the water for subtle movements. Salmon do not always show themselves clearly. Sometimes the only sign is a slight disturbance, a slight change in how the current looks, or the birds are behaving differently. We learn how to feel the difference in the net when the fish enter it. You can tell the difference when a king salmon hits.

And what do we do? We go out there and make sure that they get out of the net. Experienced fishermen can tell by the tension and vibration whether the net is heavy with fish or whether it's drifting freely. That sensitivity comes from years of handling gear. So I grew up fishing in the Shumagin Islands where geography shapes everything, every day.

We're the birth of the winds out here in the Aleutians. Islands create wind shadows. Current wraps around headlands differently depending on tides. Certain passages hold fish longer during specific tide phases. These are not things that are written down.

They're They are memorized through repetition and they're handed down through culture, through tradition, through learning. I was a little different in my family because I was the only child, so I had to learn the female aspects of the household, but I also had to learn the male aspects of the household. So thus I was able to go fishing and jump right into it. It was a lot of fun. My grandfather used to say that the sea teaches patience.

Some days you wait and some days The fish move quickly and you got to be ready. Timing is everything. I remember in the early summers when we would prepare boats in the late May. The long daylight hours felt endless. A lot of times I got to go to the beach and learn about kelp with my grandmother.

The different types of kelp that are needed for the fish as they go through. I learned in one of my Unangan— I cannot say it, I'm sorry— but my Unangan name is Kelp Girl. Because I helped on the beach a lot. And I wanted to be a marine biologist, but I got married instead.

So over the decades, I have observed variability. Some years fish move through in strong pulses, and sometimes they're more scattered through different years. Water temperature, current strength, and the weather conditions all influence that movement. As a young crew member, I learned to watch how tides change affected fish travel. During strong ebb tides, fish sometimes hold different differently than during flood tides.

When winds align with current, surface conditions change, fish behavior can shift. Handling salmon also teaches knowledge. Early-run fish can feel differently in firmness, fat content than later-run fish.

My grandkids know this already. The way they are processed may vary slightly depending on those conditions, and that knowledge is passed down by demonstration. From generation to generation. When I became a mother, I brought my children to the boat with me. I actually went fishing with them when I was pregnant, so they were always on there.

They learned to coil lines properly, to stay aware of their footing, to respect gear. Safety is part of traditional knowledge, and knowing when the weather is off, even before a forecast changes, is something experienced fishermen recognize.

9 Generations in our one family have been observed in the same waters. We have seen how shorelines shape fish movement. We have seen how storms build around certain islands faster than others. And we have seen how long daylight hours influence fish patterns. In both Sandpoint and King Cove, salmon are a very important part of our family structure.

Fishing seasons define summer schedules. Children grow up understanding that work on the water requires cooperation. Most of our children have never had a summer. They go fishing. It's what they do.

Living in coastal Alaska teaches humility. The ocean cannot be controlled. It can only be understood and respected, and through learning from our elders is how we learn how to do that.

It is also about identity. Being Unangan means understanding that our relationship with the sea goes back generations. We are taught to respect what we harvest and to use it wilee, wisely. As a tribal council member, I see how deeply fishing is woven into our daily life. But as a knowledge holder, what I carry most strongly is the living memories of seasons repeating, of preparing boats in the spring, of watching long daylight evenings, of passing down skills one child at a time.

Each child in my family learned how to dry fish, smoke fish, how to jar fish, freeze it. And we don't salt fish, we sugar the fish. And that was put out by one of my nieces. And so through my kids and grandchildren, when we salt fish, we sugar the fish. The tools have modernized, yes.

Communication has improved, yes. But the core knowledge— watching currents, reading weather, understanding timing, and remaining constant— those remain constant. Traditional knowledge is cumulative. It builds from one generation to the next. It lives in muscle memory and in stories told at our kitchen table, usually over pilot bread with butter and some type of fish.

You come to our villages and that's what you'll get. And that's been 9 generations in my family through Norway, Denmark, and then here. Thank you. Thank you, Brenda. Um, quick question for you.

So what kind of salmon did you primarily prepare and eat and utilize? Red salmon. Okay, thank you. Oh, it's awesome. I don't disagree.

Thank you very much. Miss Irwin has one question for you. Yes, yeah, thank you very much, Brenda, for traveling, and thank you for your testimony. My question is, um, when you first started fishing, um, in the Shumigan Islands, were you having a lot of success, and what does that compare to your success with the Sakais now? Well, it ebbs and varies through the years, depending on the runs.

I think it's similar into what they used to catch, but I only got paid $1. And back then you had to pew the fish. And I have just one more follow-up. Um, what depth of net would you use when you first started fishing, and what do you use now? Oh goodness, I don't know.

I would have to find that answer for you. That's okay. I've counted them because I hang the nets, but I can't remember. I'm sorry. That's okay.

Thank you very much for your testimony. Thank you. All right, thanks, Brenda. Charlie Green.

Hi, Charlie. Welcome.

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank the board or the council here members to giving me a chance to talk today. And my name is Charlie Green. I am the chief of Loudon Village for the last 13 years, and it's— some people know it as Galiina Alaska. I also sit on the TCC executive board for the Yukon-Kaikuk middle part of the river, and so I'm here representing a lot of people.

I'm married, I have a family of 8. I have 4 biological, 4 adopted, so I have a big household. I have still one left in the house, 13-year-old adopted girl. And, you know, I, all raised traditional, you know, fish, fishing, traditional, cultural. My wife is also from Galena and was born and raised there.

We only left to go to school to get back to our home, and we still live in the village. I'm 64 years old, and [Speaker:CHIEF_ALLEN] You know, as we— you know, as I listen to this, my testimony probably changed 50 times before I got here. And you know, I think that, you know, my debate— you know, you guys heard probably enough sad stories. You know, we were born and raised, all of us, fishing. And you know, we've all went through this.

My village was a big commercial fishing.

You know, egg processing place, there was Japanese everywhere all over, eggplants, 4, 3, 4 of them all buying eggs. So we've been through all this, you know. As a little kid all the way growing up, I worked in fish plants cutting header all the way through doing, you know, so I've done this scene. Our villages went through this stuff. We were big-time commercial fishermen even as we were all subsistence fishermen.

So I've been through this. I don't think I want to waste my time on giving you my sad story. You know, you guys, you've been here. I've been here 3 years ago telling you guys the same story, same sad stories all the time of, you know, I don't want to just keep sitting here debating on who deserves to fish, you know, whether it's Area M, us on the Yukon, Kuskokwim. You know, we all, you know, my concern here is how are we going to save these fish?

And I can tell you, I, as the chief of my village, we do every single thing we can to save our fish. I haven't fished for 6 years. You know, have chances sometime to, even in a test fishery, we're working with TCC to do a mid-river sonar, and the biologists there, we test and they get their sonar set up and, you know, we catch 4 or 5 kings for the test fisheries and, you know, Even the biologists say, "Hey, Chief, do you want me to accidentally kill one of these or have one of these fish die?" So, you know, kind of smile at me and I say, "You know, if the rest of my village and sub-region can't eat these fish, I don't see why I should be eating a fish." And plus, we really are serious when we say every fish counts. That one fish could bring back 50 kings, who knows. You know, in 5 years.

So, you know, our village continues to fight, and we still buy our fish. You know, we're living on bought fish. Who knows how much longer. You know, we get grants. I think we're out of money this year.

You know, we try to, you know, utilize— we built a fish wheel, a community fish wheel to catch non-salmon species. We, you know, we continue to— our tribes to to pat each other on the back for not fishing, excuse me, not even trying to traditionally catch. You know, we have culture camps for kids. We don't even want to waste showing our kids at culture camps fish. We don't even do that because we want every single egg to count.

You know, when you hear young people stand up in front of us in our meetings and say, you know, when You know, you guys got to fish. You know, why don't you guys, you know, we want to have our kids and we want to try to fish. You know, we want to do what you guys did and we don't even get a chance to. So when I hear young people cry and talk about that stuff, that's what I want to, I really want to try to do as a leader and a chief is to try to, you know, give these young people a chance. You know, we're here to try to save these fish.

You know, I— and I do everything I can. I can go home tonight, go to my hotel, wherever, and know that I can tell my grandkids, I can tell my kids, I've done every single thing to save them fish coming up the Yukon. So when them Yukon fish quit coming and there's no more fish, guess what? I can sit here and say, Chief Green did everything that he could do to save our fish. You know, and my question here is, can I look around this room, look at all you guys that are sitting here making these decisions to say you can say the same thing?

Are you doing every single thing you can to save these fish? Or what are we doing? Are we worrying about commercial fishing and what are we going to hurt, whose feelings are we going to hurt? You know, we're all here for the same thing, you know. We want to save these fish.

And I'm talking about the Kuskokwim, the Yukon, all these little tributaries that are intercepted, or trawlers, or whatever, you know, all what we're all here sitting, you know, I have a lot of things to do. I'm a busy dude. I got a full-time job. I sit on these boards. I trap.

I spend a lot of time with my kids, my girls. Right now I could be in I should be in California watching my girl play college basketball, but no, I'm here fighting today for our fish and talking to her on the phone. You know, and I got to have my kids come here. She said, "You really?" I took her to the federal meeting last year and she goes, "You sit there and listen to people talk about commercial fishing when we don't even, we can't even eat a fish? Dad, is that what you do?" Every time you leave for these meetings, why would you even go there?

I mean, that's crazy. She said, I would never come back to a meeting like this to sit there and listen to, you know, stuff like this when we can't even fish. We have nothing. We don't even get a chance to do anything, you know, and we were commercial fishermen. So, you know, that's my point today, and that's my final thing.

What I came up with is I hope you guys can go home tonight and and, you know, think that hopefully you've done everything you can to save these fish and get them back into our rivers.

Thank you. Thank you, Charlie. Any questions? Mr. Wood? Yeah, thank you, Charlie.

How far upriver is Galena from the mouth? Um, geez, I've been all the way to the mouth with a boat. I could say close, maybe 800 miles, 800, 900 miles is—. And one of the— the reason I ask that is one of the beauties of traditional knowledge is we get to hear from things like way far back, mistakes that we have made long before we are here now at this table. Yep.

Good things and bad things. Yep. Mostly we learn cool things like, you know, octopus. Hotcakes and stuff. But if you could reflect on some of the commercial fishing in your river, because you said you're a commercial fisherman back in the day, reflect on, say, the commercial fishing practices or the roe stripping practices.

How does that fit into the history of where you're at on the Yukon? I would say where it fits in is that as the early '70s, mid-'70s, late '80s, I mean early '80s. You know, our villages, you know, we, like everywhere else, we don't have much, you know, economical anything. You know, we're in the middle of nowhere. We have no roads.

We have no way to, you know, we don't have logging. We don't have anything like that. So I would say, I mean, you know, it was, you know, for a while when the fish were plentiful, I could hear other subsistence fishermen talk about how many fish the water would raise, you know, in our areas. There was so much fish in our days. And I think like everywhere, I mean, it was a part of all of our rivers.

I mean, the commercial was all the way from the mouth to all the way to Fort Yukon, to wherever, you know. I mean, I think commercial fishing has been a part of all of our lives and, you know, I guess, you know, a window of what we all lived and seen, and now it's gone. And, you know, now our subsistence is gone. So I mean, I think it was just a chapter in all of our, you know, if you look, I think my sister-in-law, I got a son biologist, niece, sister-in-law biologist, and you know, I think she said it was in 1918, cannery started at the mouth. And by 2000, I mean 1924, the river was closed.

They fished the river completely out for 7 years until 1931 was the last, I mean, they had a 7-year moratorium not to fish. In 1932, they the river came back, the fish all came back. So we obviously know that this can happen with no, you know, there was no big trawlers, no big stuff in them days. And so our fish did, you know, come back and rebound from that time. And I think, you know, today we can, if right circumstances, we can do the same thing.

Obviously, 6 years we got the lowest return last year after 6 years, it should have been— it should— if, if, if just cutting the river off at the Yukon, this would have been— it would be true. But our fish must be getting caught somewhere else because we're obviously, after 6 years, and getting the lowest return after 6 years is— there's something not right. Because, you know, even if there was no fish 6 years ago, I mean, the 3, 4, 5-year-olds all should be coming back last year. And so I just think that we all have to just— I mean, them are just pretty simple equations. And I hope I didn't just ramble on and on from—.

No, thank you. I appreciate that. Mr. Owen. Thank you. Thank you, Chief Green, for coming all this way and for giving this report.

My question is, you mentioned that Galena was participating in commercial fishing and that was part of the economy, and that's no longer part of it. My question is, is the school in Galena still open?

In operation? Yes, yes, we have a, we have a Gila school that actually does the whole, most of the, you know, a lot of kids from Alaska. It's, I think there's about 200 students. We, we turned the old Air Force Base into a school and we, we operate that school out of Galena now. I actually am the director of maintenance for that school and, you know, I direct buses, maintenance, custodians, the maintenance crews, but We probably have 15 buildings, and then we have a local school too.

And, you know. Okay, thank you very much. Okay, thank you guys. Rochelle Adams.

Hi, Rochelle, welcome.

After Rochelle, we'll hear from Ron Yaitlin, Jack Holchies, Jimmy Koopchayak, and Candace Nielsen. David Osterback. Whenever you're ready.

Chinan, nankirahatea go'ayke'an. Good day, elders, chiefs, and leaders. Chinan to my relatives, to the Dena'ina people for their stewardship of these lands and waters that we're meeting on today. Maasichoo, Koyaanis, Gunalcheesh, Chinan, Kaasukung, Hau'aa, Anabasi, to the indigenous people across the state of Alaska. Who've successfully stewarded these lands and waters since time began.

My name is Rochelle Adams. I'm from the villages of Fort Yukon and Beaver in the Yukon Flats. We are Salmon People. I was raised along the Yukon River hunting, fishing, and sharing. In my language of Gwich'in, we call it Gwunzi Gwurundai, the good life that our people fished for hundreds of generations.

I'm the mother of 3 and happy that my kids were old enough to remember a time when we were able to fish from our river and share with each other. My first memories in life, when I became aware, are of being at fish camp with my family.

This is the basis of my worldview. My kids and I used to build fish wheels and set nets with my dad. We set our fish wheel and net in the same areas that our family has set for generations. To show our worldview as Gwich'in people, in our language, the month of July is called Sukchawjri, the month of the king salmon. The month of August is Heejri, the month of the chum salmon.

Those are the two primary species of salmon that we get in the Yukon Flats. When we are at fish camp fishing with our families, this is our universities. This is where we earn our— learn our values, protocols, and where we get our PhDs. This is where we learn hard work, be in our wellness and health by eating the healthiest food, and have a strong spiritual grounding with our lands and waters. Without being able to fish, many families' fish camps have fallen into the river.

Since we've not fished in 6 years in river, our subsistence needs have not been met. We're seeing devastating growth in adverse health effects, which you heard about from Chief Ridley, so I won't go into that. Indigenous people have been the stewards of these lands and waters since time immemorial. We've lived in relationship with our salmon relatives since before time began. We've lived in relationship with the animals, fish, birds, plant relatives so far back that we all spoke the same language with each other and understood one another.

As an Indigenous people, we come from oral history. Much of our knowledge is passed down through language, traditional stories, songs, dances, arts, and ways of life. When we don't make room for that knowledge, the language and these knowledge systems, we're leaving out entire worldviews that can greatly benefit this conversation when we talk about how to manage a fisheries. So traditional stories are a great way to pass information. During winter, it's a time to share stories and to slowly chew a piece of the winter.

So I'm gonna share a really quick story. I'll summarize it the best I can. The story's been told from a lot of people in my region, specifically the late Chief David Salmon, who was a traditional chief of the interior, also the traditional Chief Trimble Gilbert, and many elders. This one is from the book Dinji Vatsaizitlit, The Man Who Became a Caribou.

Dena daik go guandak, aite, dena daik chesuk, Gwintilvarahne.

This is a story from a long time ago. Long ago, the Lush put up a memorial potlatch, they say. It was a story of different kinds of ceremonies. It's a ceremony that they're doing, that's what they say. That's the ceremony they're practicing.

My grandma said they did a lot of different kinds of ceremonies. There's a reason for what they're doing around there. They're doing it for a purpose. During spring breakup, the ice took away one of the Lushes' children. She grieved and she grieved over her child lost in the spring ice.

The ice swept away the child. The water swept away the child. It happened during springtime. So many years later, the Lush was making a big celebration, a potlatch for the child. It was a time of gathering together.

She gathered lots of gifts and she gathered all the good gifts together. She invited all the living creatures. All the living creatures came together from every direction, small animals, big animals, all kinds of fish, the salmon, the birds, the ducks, all the important ones and the dangerous ones too. And for that reason she made an arena where they would all come together and have a gathering. And she brought them all inside and she told everyone, "Come in." All the fish were there.

They were all going into that arena. So, and they were all gifted, I'll try to summarize here, they were all given a gift. And those animals, they each received something, and that's how they became the way they are. And they all carry that within themselves. They're still carrying that gift within their bodies.

And this is the story of the first potlatch. And if you know Dene, Athabaskan people, we potlatch, the people of the interior. And so we, that's the, to show the connection connection between us and the animals and what we learn from the fish and how we learn how to potlatch and how to gift, how to share and have those protocols. So every animal carries that gift with them. And I'm just happy to share that with you all.

And there was also one small part, I think I have more time, I'll share one part of what animal got a gift 'cause it's kind of funny. So the rabbit was late to the potlatch and the only thing that was left were these really oversized caribou leg skin boots. And so the rabbit had to get those really big boots and he was unhappy but he looked, kept looking down at his feet and noticed those big shoes but he learned to love them. So, yeah. [Speaker:JENNIFER] Thanks, Rochelle.

Any questions? I want to read that story in full sometime.

Thank you for your testimony today. Ron Yatlin.

Is Ron with us this afternoon?

Jack Holchies. Oh, hi. Sorry. I'm looking the wrong direction. Welcome.

Good afternoon.

Sorry, my leg's been bothering me today.

Good afternoon, Chair Carlson, VanDort, and members of the board. My name is Ron Yatlin. I am a tribal member of the Beaver Tribe. I am a veteran of the U.S. Army 82nd Airborne. I was a squad leader in Charlie Company, 1st of the 508th.

I am presently an elder of the Beaver Tribe, and I serve on the Yukon Flats Advisory Council. I am a 19-year diabetic survivor. I am speaking on behalf of myself.

And the village of Beaver. All of the leaders on the Yukon Flats are very concerned about the survival of our people and our way of life.

We live on the Yukon River and its tributaries, dependent on its bounty to continue to subsist and share a stake in the stewardship of its resources.

My concern is the moratorium that was put in place for the Yukon River was done without a current subsistence survey being done in our area.

If they did the survey recently, they would have found out that we have not fished in our area since 2019. That was the last time we met our subsistence needs.

I think if they did the survey and every fisherman reported that they caught no fish, that information is the most important information that the board could use to make their decisions.

Last couple summers, the Yukon River was really high water and driftwood was always in the water. And a lot of time trees, including roots, were going by.

We are starting to see water temperatures in the Yukon go above 60 degrees.

I have seen as high as 62.5 degrees water temperature just these last couple years.

We have always fished conservatively. We take only what we need with the intent that the fish is going to return and the air is coming.

In response to our rules of the river and the present rules and regulations of Department— Alaska Department of Fish and Game, we started looking for new places to fish for sheefish and whitefish.

After looking many places, we finally found a place where There was sheefish and whitefish.

I wanted to fish legally, so I contacted Fish and Game in Fairbanks to see if I could set a net there.

They said they would get back to me. The next day I contacted them again and they informed me I could not set a fishnet there.

[Speaker:CHIEF] After some deep thought, my question was about the data that they are using. They said it was a spawning ground for salmon.

When was the survey done, and is that information still relevant? I would like to ask the department to do more studies and updated information about where the salmon are spawning.

I think this is a reason that traditional knowledge can help the department better understand where the salmon are and what is going on if they work with us on things like this. I would like to say thank you to you, the board, and Chair Carlton VanDort and the members of the board for creating this space to share my traditional knowledge and incorporating it into your board process. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being here.

Thank you for your testimony. And appreciate your participation in helping it become successful. Any questions? Thank you for your testimony today, sir. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Good afternoon, sir.

Welcome.

Thank you, Madam Chair, Board. My name is Jack Colcheese. I'm from Housliya. I'm First Chief of Tanakanaga. Tanakanaga was incorporated in 1983 to serve as a voice for Native elders in the Doyon and TCC regions of Interior Alaska.

Our mission is to be the elder voice of the people.

And as such, we speak out and work on issues that the elders direct us to, including issues that impact our subsistence way of life, tradition ways, and cultures. Dinakanaga is a Koyukon Athabaskan word That means our people speak.

We represent a lot of people. There's 7 members on our board and we try our best to help all the elders. And you know, the sad thing about this is our elders losing the taste of fish. It's something that you wouldn't understand unless you experience it yourself. You don't know our traditional ways or our culture or how our elders grew up.

I was born in Little Fall Camp where my family 4 or 5 families went down to spend the winter.

We are nomadic, we were a nomadic people. We traveled and I guess I could say I was one of the lucky ones that got to travel with my parents as a little 6-year-old, 7-year-old.

We went from fall camp, winter camp, fish camp, spring camp.

It was our way of life.

We didn't have to worry about people coming in to change our way of life.

And now we were the first people We are the first people of Alaska.

And then all of a sudden the Western world came in and built up all these laws, scientific studies.

Our elders said, once you start messing with the animals, they're gonna leave.

And it's happening. Once you go through space, weather's going to change. And it's happening. You know, our elders knew it.

They knew how to tell the weather.

They knew when the weather was going to change. They knew when to travel.

And they knew how to hunt. They knew how much to get. Don't overdo it. If you overdo it, you share with others. That's one thing our traditional and culture does.

We share with people. We make sure other people are okay.

They taught us how to respect the animals and our land and the river because they supply food for us.

Now there's a lot of things I could keep on saying, but you know, it's Something that people don't understand.

You have to live the life to know what we're going through.

Such as, you know, we have a potlatch. We honor our past relatives that passed away. We honored them with the last dinner. The potlatch originated with the giving of food. It's called a food potlatch, and then it changed to where you give out gifts, but a food potlatch.

Which is something that the people that are putting it on save the best parts of the animal to eat.

The last 6 years, there's no fish.

There used to be salmon strips, half-dried fish, dried fish. Whole king salmon right there. We put our food out there on the floor and we get together with song and love for our people that's gone.

We haven't seen no fish for 6 years and that kind of Elders are always talking about that, you know. It's something that is lost to us.

It's a culture that's lost.

Just like when we lose our parents or something, we have no schools, they send a whole bunch of us to boarding schools.

We lost our way of life.

We lost our language. We lost our regalia.

But I'll tell you one thing, we didn't lose hope. We didn't lose hope. We're a resilient people, and it's going to keep on going.

There's kids, you know, they always say they got their thumbs really busy, but in the fall time we take them out hunting and that thumbs are gone. They're out there with a rifle. They want to get food to put on the table. And they go fishing with fishing rods, trying to get whitefish. They used to stay up all night because we used, as dog mushers, we pour guts in the river so that the whitefish would congregate.

And you ask somebody, you know, we have radios, get on the radio and say, where's so-and-so? Or they're down the river fishing all night, 5 o'clock in the morning, they're still down there.

But fish is our main source of diet because there's a lot of fat on there, a lot of protein.

We're also losing bears. I know this ain't a fish deal, but we're losing bears. We're losing black bears. On the Kaikou River, that used to be our main staple of food because they're so fat. In the fall time, you catch them, they have the sweetest meat you'll ever taste because they eat berries.

But gee, that's just— already? Yep. Okay, well, I have a couple more times, so thank you. Thank you for listening to me. I hope you take it to heart to listen all these testimonies that was brought up today.

Yes, sir. Thank you. Will do. Questions? Thank you.

Thank you for being here. Appreciate you. Jimmy Kupchayek.

Followed by Candace Nielsen. And David Osterbeck. Hi, Jimmy, welcome back. Hi, good evening. My name— Madam Chair and members of the board, my name is Jimmy Kupchayek and my Yup'ik name is Aguli.

That means that I was born in the middle of the family. I am speaking today on behalf of myself and the Tokiak Traditional Council. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. I want to speak about the subsistence harvest of herring spawn on kelp in the Togiak District and what it truly means to our people.

Harvesting spawn on kelp is something that my family has done for generations. It's one of the first fresh foods we gather after a long winter. When the herring spawn in the spring, usually between late April and early June, our families travel to our traditional camps and the harvest places. Our elders teach us when to go, where to go, and how to harvest respectfully.

I remember elders saying, "When the herring come, It means the ocean is waking up. That is time to gather. They taught us to watch the tides, the kelps, the birds, and all the natural signs that spawning is happening.

This is not a large commercial operation. We harvest by hand, carefully picking spawn from the rocks, the kelp that the herring spawn on. Sometimes using small hand tools, it takes time, patience, and knowledge passed down through the generations.

Elders, parents, and children all working together. The time on the water and on the beach is where cultural knowledge is passed on, not in the classroom. But on the land and in the bay, I bring my grandchildren with me to go hunting, fishing, and to gather our subsistence foods. After harvest, we preserve the spawn by freezing or salting. We eat it with seal oil, and we share it widely, widely, especially with elders and those who cannot harvest themselves.

Our seals have not been as fat due to the lack of forage species in the spring. Makluk seals, known as bearded seals, are not as common due to the lack of sea ice.

ADFG's own research recognized that spawn on kelp harvest is a customary and traditional practice and that it occurs on a small family scale.

It is for food culture and survival, not for markets. Commercial sacro fisheries came later and largely serve export markets. Our bays would be filled with foreign processors and Seners in the early days. Our subsistence harvest serves our table, our freezers, and our way of life.

When management decisions affect spawning areas, timing, or access, it directly impacts our ability to feed our families and to pass this knowledge forward to our grandkids.

����N kelp is more than food to us. It is culture. It is teaching. It is identity.

I respectfully ask the board to continue recognizing and protecting subsistence harvest opportunities in the Togiak District so our people can continue to practice for generations to come. Thank you for the opportunity to be here. Thank you for being with us today and sharing that. Any questions? Thanks, Jimmy.

Appreciate you. Candace Nielsen.

Welcome. Thank you.

Thank you. I didn't realize there wasn't a timer on that side, and now I feel bad for all the speakers before me because that's painful to not be able to see it. But thank you all for allowing us to come before you and speak on traditional knowledge. Ong ong, Chair and members of the board. My name is Candace Nielsen.

I am a tribal member of the Native Village of Nelson Lagoon and a shareholder of the Aleut Corporation. I currently serve as Director of Regional Strategy and Policy for Aleut. I'm here today to share collective traditional knowledge of our relatives across the Aleut Region. This responsibility is deeply personal to me. I recently relocated to Wasilla so my children could attend school, as the schools in my home communities of Nelson Lagoon and Cold Bay have closed due to under-enrollment.

In our region, the health of our communities is closely connected to the health of our fisheries. When access to fisheries changes, families relocate. When families relocate, communities change. When families leave, schools close. These changes are not abstract to us.

They are lived experiences that ripple across generations. Our people have already.

Endured profound cultural disruption and displacement, and continued instability in our fisheries risks further loss of our communities, our knowledge, and our presence in our homelands. I want to acknowledge that while I may not be an elder yet, the knowledge I carry is intergenerational. It has been spoken to me since I was a child in our homes, on the water, during harvest, and in quiet conversations with aunties and uncles. Fishermen who watched the tides long before I did. Travel to Anchorage is difficult for our elders.

I speak here as a conduit for the teachings, observations, and responsibilities entrusted to me. For the Unangax̂ people, fish are not simply resources. They are providers. They feed us, clothe us, sustain us, sustain our communities, and shape our identity as fisher people. Life on the water is not just an occupation, it is tradition.

Fishing in all its forms— subsistence, commercial, and cultural harvest— is interwoven with who we are. We depend on the sea. Our traditional knowledge reflects a worldview formed on volcanic islands in one of the most dynamic marine environments in the world. It is knowledge carried through language, story, observation, and participation. Our elders teach us to watch the water, the birds, the currents, and the conditions of fish.

We understand that abundance moves in cycles. Some streams produce strongly for years, then slow. Some species fluctuate over decades. Adaptation has always been a part of our survival. At the same time, what our fishermen and culture bearers observe today is the speed and scale of change.

Storm intensity has increased. Weather patterns are less predictable. Timing of runs can shift. Access windows narrow because safety conditions on open water have changed. These observations are shared across communities throughout our region.

Alyu Corporation also serves as a conduit to cultural— or to culture for displaced Unangax̂ people. Many of our shareholders no longer live in their home villages due to historical disruption, economic shifts, school closures, measures and forced relocations that caused profound cultural loss for our people. Our region experienced cultural genocide through displacement, and its impacts are still felt today, today in the separation of our people from our homelands and subsistence practices. The ability to return home and practice subsistence remains vital, not only for food security but for cultural continuity. Knowledge transmission happens through participation, being on the boat with parents and grandparents processing fish together, learning through doing.

Through westernization and commercialization, involvement in fisheries also became the economic foundation that allowed our communities to remain viable while adapting to evolving technology and systems. Fishing is not separate from our culture. In many ways, it has become one of the primary ways our culture survives in the modern era. I share this today for our elders, our fisher people, and our families who can't be here, to offer understanding of how deeply intertwined our communities are with the fisheries of this region. Kudosikung.

Thank you. Thank you, Candace. Appreciate your perspectives. Any questions? Thank you.

And to round it out, David Osterback.

Glad you can make it back.

Welcome.

Well, I think I'm about as traditional as you can get. I just turned 81. So I've been around a while. And I've heard testimonies like the young lady there, and she hit the spot on the head. I come from Sand Point down in the Shemigan Islands.

My father was born and raised on Wasasunske Island. My mother was from Ikitan. I was born in False Pass.

My name is David Osterback. I'm an Aleut and a member of the Chagin/Taiguna Tribe. I was born in False Pass and raised there, Wasnasenski and also Sandpoint. I'm a third-generation fisherman. My sons are fourth-generation.

My grandchildren are fifth, and I now have a great-granddaughter. Great-granddaughter, yeah. It could possibly be a sixth-generation fisherman. Fisher person. I began fishing with my father in the early '50s when I was a young boy.

Except for my time in the Air Force during the Vietnam era and a few years working for the state of Alaska, I have commercial fished my entire life. My father was born and raised on Wasisevski, where him and his family built fishing boats up to 50 feet long. And all the timbers and materials that they needed to build those vessels all came from the ocean. There were logs that came in on the beaches and all the nails and things that they needed to put them together, they made them themselves in their blacksmith shop.

And they used them for commercial fishing.

For more than 70 years, I have observed changes in salmon abundance, timing, and distribution. Salmon runs have always been in cycles in my lifetime. Time. There have been strong runs, often followed by weaker ones, sometimes for several seasons in a row. The earliest was the Bristol Bay sockeye run.

Our June salmon fishery was managed by the runs predicted by the ADF&G for years and managed by the Alaska Board of Fish.

Somewhere around 1.5% for the Shumagin Islands and 6.8% of the Bristol Bay run. And that was in place for several years by the board.

After several years of this management, the Alaska Board of Fish, through their science department, they received an announcement from one of their biologists at a board meeting that stated the numbers of sockeye saved to Bristol Bay with those numbers were so insignificant that they couldn't measure it.

So the board took that in mind and they said, well, if they can't measure it, what's the point of having it? So they got rid of it. And the Bristol Bay run ever since they got rid of that has been getting bigger and bigger. Every year. So figure that one out.

So we're not under any of those kind of restrictions with Bristol Bay.

I've seen seasons where the Chik'uxáak'i salmon run was very strong, very weak in Area M in the southeastern district. Of our area. They would have heavy runs in Chignik, we'd have none.

The summer of '25 was a good example, and other times when it struggled, I have observed similar cycles in other regions. In the waters around the capes of the Alaska Peninsula, fishermen pay close attention to the direction fish travel. When we set our pursing gear, We target salmon moving west along the coastline. That is where we historically see the strongest movements of salmon. We do not set gear for fish traveling east.

Observing salmon movement patterns has always been a part of our, of how we fish. Over the years, I have noticed different body types among chum salmon. Some are long and narrow, and we've called them torpedo chums. Others are broader larger and heavier bodied. We also see immature salmon mixed in these at times.

These differences have been observed consistently over the decades. Fishermen talk among themselves about where different fish may originate based on appearance and timing. But what is consistent is that multiple stocks move through these waters. I have also observed that salmon abundance in our area can vary greatly from year to year. Without obvious local causes.

Ocean conditions appear to play a role. Some years salmon are strong, bright, and plentiful. Other years they are smaller or less abundant. Those patterns often seem connected to broader environmental conditions rather than changes within our immediate fishing.

Throughout my lifetime, fishing practices I've adapted. Gear has changed, fishing time has changed, the way we operate has evolved, but one constant has been the close observation fishermen maintain about tides, currents, water temperature, fish behaviour and timing. I've also observed the connections between communities over time. In earlier decades, people from river communities worked in canneries in False Pass and Kinko. Families from different regions were connected through seasonal work and shared dependence on.

Salmon, those relationships were part of the broader salmon culture in Alaska. From my experience, salmon management decisions have long-lasting effects on the smaller fishing communities. When a salmon fishing opportunity changes, it affects families across generations. Fishing knowledge is passed down not only through stories but by working together on boats and along the coast. When opportunity decreases, that transfer of knowledge is also affected.

In my lifetime, I've seen abundance, scarcity, growth, and decline. I've seen salmon adapt, and I've seen fishermen adapt. What remains constant is that salmon connect people across generations and across regions. The knowledge I share today comes from more than 70 years of fishing these waters, learning from my father and teaching my children and grandchildren. It reflects lived experience on the Alaska Peninsula and long-term patterns we have observed there.

Thank you.

Thank you, David. Any questions? Well, I think you did a very good job of putting the kōdaa on our traditional knowledge. So thank you very much for all of your testimonies, for all the participants today. Very impactful and helpful to the decision-making process.

So thank you, sir. As far as I, I can see that that concludes the list. I, for one, need to kind of build up my stamina. And so I had mentioned that we were probably going to move right into public testimony, but I think this is a good place to pause for the evening. And at 8:30 AM sharp, we will begin with our public testimony portion of the agenda and Bring snacks tomorrow because we are going to move— we are going to kind of push through it.

So we got 219 people signed up. So like I said, pack some snacks. We'll see you tomorrow morning. Thank you.