House Education, 4/8/26, 8am

Okay, good morning. I'm calling the House Education Committee to order. Today is Wednesday, April 8th, 2026, and the time is 8:06 AM. Members present are Representative Elam, Representative Daibert, Representative Schwanke, Representative Eichcheidt, Representative Underwood, and myself, Co-Chair Himschoot. We have a quorum to conduct business. I'd like to remind members to silence their cell phones. We are in the Betty Davis Committee Room 106 in the State Capitol Building in Juneau, Alaska, and the documents for today's meeting have been distributed to members and are available on the table outside the door and on BASIS. I'd like to thank our recording secretary, Kayl Brown, and our moderator from the Juneau LIO, Susan Quigley, and our committee aides, Ella Lubin and Tammy Smith. On our agenda today, we will hear Senate Bill 181, House Bill 12, and Senate Bill 20. Our first order of business today is House Bill 12 by Representative Dybert, entitled An Act Relating to Free Breakfast and Lunch in Public Schools. This is the fourth hearing of this this bill in this committee. As a reminder to members, the committee adopted a CS during this bill's previous hearing, and I would like to welcome Representative Divert and staff Seneca Roach to come forward, put yourselves on the record, and maybe give us a short reintroduction or recap of the bill, and then we'll go to committee questions.

Okay.

Good morning, co-chairs, um, Co-chair Himschoot and members of the House Education Committee. And thank you for taking the opportunity, um, once again to hear House Bill 12. For the record, Maxine Dibert. I represent downtown Fairbanks, House District 31. The committee, like you mentioned, has heard this bill previously a handful of times, and we did adopt a committee substitute in its last hearing. And to remind committee members, this new version focuses on providing school meal aid to children who qualify for the reduced price meal program. These families are some of the most vulnerable in the state, making too much money to qualify for free school meals and not enough to fully support their children alone. Given the rising costs of living across our state. This kind of support is sorely needed to ensure our students currently under financial stress are given the opportunity to succeed in school. And I know this as a teacher. I've seen the toll that hunger takes on students and our communities. And in a perfect world, we would see all parents being able to provide for their children. The reality we face is far more complex. As teachers, it is our responsibility to ensure our students are given the tools and resources needed to succeed. Passing this bill would not only feed thousands of hungry children across the state, but also take some of the burden from teachers who are often left to pay for children's meals out of their own pockets, as well as principals and other educators in our building. I want to thank the committee for their time this morning and for considering this legislation. And with that, I will turn things over to my legislative aide, Seneca Roach, to provide a brief recap of what the bill does. And together we'll try to answer any further questions that the committee might have to make this the best bill that we can make it to be.

Um, good morning, Chair Hempschute, members of the House Education Committee. For the record, Sanker Roach, staff to Representative Dybert. Thank you for bringing HB 12 before the committee again. The CSO was adopted in our last committee hearing, changes the objective of the bill from making all Alaskan students meals free to making reduced-price meals free. This change lowers the cost of the program significantly while targeting some of the most vulnerable children across the state. Thank you again for hearing the bill, and we are available if the committee has any further questions.

Okay, looking to the committee for questions. Representative Schwanke.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to thank you for, you know, taking a hard look at, at the specific needs of some of these districts, and I really appreciate all the data that's presented in the bill packet because I think it really highlights the individual school schools and the needs within them. And I was just hoping that you could describe a little bit more about the savings from the updated narrowed scope.

Would that be to Staff Member Roach?

I can take this through the chair. So we don't yet have a fiscal note, but just given looking at— you can like make some calculations about the amount of students that are in the state and the cost that it would make. I'm not— I don't want to step on on the toes of DEED or anything like that, but just given the fiscal amount that I would take to pay off these school lunches and school breakfasts, that cost would be somewhere around $430,000. That's given the cost that it would take to pay off free school breakfast and reduced school breakfast and reduced school lunch for the 2 seconds. 3,326 children in the state that qualify for reduced-price lunch programs, for recessed meal programs. And that number, the 430-ish thousand, is— would be a cap for the amount, uh, that would be needed to pay off, because that's assuming every single child in the state is applying for reduced-price lunch and breakfast, which we know is not the case. It's actually a problem that not enough of the children are actually applying for this program. And that's also assuming that every single child eats free breakfast and free lunch every single day of the 180-day school year, which is also not going to be the case. If you are to assume that maybe only like 50% of students that are eligible for the program are eating every single day, then it'd be somewhere more around like $200,000 or something like that. So that $430,000 number that I just cited is the cap for how much would be needed to pay off these reduced-price lunches in a year.

Follow-up?

And I think Representative Dibert wanted to add to that, and then we'll go to the follow-up. Just to add to the conversation on learning about this bill, I've spoken to many schools in my district of Fairbanks because that's where I am, and already schools are paying or asking help from parents to help pay bills of past children who are, yeah, who are ordering lunch and breakfast but not able to pay. And many schools are already paying into the thousands at the end of the year to help pay for those, those meals. I just spoke to a family a couple of weeks ago and the little brother was asking the teacher to help pay for school lunches and breakfast because his little brother already had a $100 late fee and the family couldn't pay for it. And that's just one kiddo, and that was in, um, in a rural district. I can't— I think it was Kodiak. But there's— that's just one, and I know there's many more, and thousands rack up very easily. And I think through this bill we could help attack this at many different angles, like through the Pick, Click, Give, a little from the state, and so on. But follow-up?

Yeah, quick follow-up. So I was kind of curious if you'd had any discussion with districts about the use of the migrant education program and how, how districts are feeling on that, because I know that's one of the components that most of the migrant ed programs at least the coordinators that I know in my district, they do provide free lunches. And so I guess I've been trying my best to keep tabs on that program to see if it's going to continue in funding. But I do know that that's one opportunity for a lot of our rural schools anyways, and urban as well. It's, it's actually very easy to qualify for the Migrant Education Program, but it does take someone from the district reaching out to parents and encouraging. Like I said, you've got to, you've got to apply. So we do have some opportunities through that. So that was kind of one part, if you have any update on the Migrant Ed program or the usage of that. And then the other part would be, so I know throughout my district the food bank has been sending out food boxes during the summer And I, I question the need for that. Um, from a lot of the families that I know that receive the food boxes, it's kind of, they kind of laugh about it and they're like, we don't know where this came from. It wasn't something necessarily, you know, it's great. Yeah, cool that we got snacks and, but it's all, it's all processed. It's all packet, you know, prepackaged stuff. Um, and I just can't help but to wonder if those items wouldn't be better served during the school year. Through school programs while children are being asked to sit quietly and listen and, you know, have attention during education day.

Outside the scope of this bill to talk about the food bank, but I get that you're talking about the whole system.

Well, the communication with the food bank on any sort of support in this arena, because I haven't heard any interest by the food bank or discussion pertaining to school lunches.

So did you want to respond to that, Representative? I'll take a stab at it and then I'll hand it over to my legislative aide. Through the co-chair to Representative Schwanke, I— the migrant ed, I'll take a stab. You know, in my tenure as a teacher, I, I worked with students who were on migrant ed And I know they— I think they help with food in the summer months. I'm not sure. In Fairbanks, I'm not— I'm not sure entirely about the program, so we will have to look into it. But maybe my aide has further discussion on that. Over this past weekend when I got to visit home, I got to

visit the food bank in Fairbanks, and they mentioned that they do help out schools in, in the Fairbanks area with food boxes. And what they're finding is that those are to help with snacks. And I know as a teacher, when I'm going out buying snacks for my students, if I get a little bit of help from the community, and if there's leftover from stores or whatever, it's a welcome to, to schools for sure. And also we have a food pantry in our school, so a lot of those food boxes go to the food pantry, which kids get a backpack to take home for the weekend so that they have food snacks for the weekend too. But that was just recent information that I got this weekend. And I don't know if you want to add anything else.

For the record, Sanka, Sanka Roach, staff to Representative Dyer. I just wanted to say we can do some more research on migrant aid programs and food bank stuff and get it back to you.

I really appreciate that, and I was just hoping that we could have that on on the record just that there are a lot of different options and we certainly want to encourage all of them. But yeah, thank you for that.

And I'd like to welcome Co-chair Story at 8:18. Glad you're here. And I'll just say from my district, I serve 21 communities and they are not connected. 5 of them are connected by road and the rest are boat or airplane. And there is not a food bank in every single community. There's a, there's a whole system here. I think Rep. Schwanke is talking about some places have this part of the system and some places have that part of the system. So I think if we can stay focused on what we can do in schools, that's the part that we're able to, I guess I'm going to say attack, but actuate. Thank you. That's what we can do in this committee. So Representative Elam, you had a question.

Thank you. I appreciate the work you're doing here. I guess I have just kind of one question Representative Schwonke asked some of the others, but— and I don't know if you guys will know this right offhand or anything, but are all schools in the, the reduced meal classification— are all schools around the state classified the same way? In that, like, whenever you're in rural or remote areas, and I'm thinking kind of bush areas of the state, there are a variety of schools throughout our state that don't have food facilities. And so is there anything that's being done in those areas? Does this look at some of those components? And again, kind of, are the classifications the same? Because I know that, like, in some of my school district areas, you know, certain areas because of the socioeconomic status of, like, that community, the one school will qualify, but then a couple blocks away another one won't qualify the same. And so how does this address some of those differences, I guess, is kind of more the question.

Or does it? Through the co-chair to Representative Elam. On the question of— I guess I'll start with, um, how things are classified. I believe all districts that apply for the federal school lunch and school meals program classify the same way, but there are a number of districts that do not for various different reasons. Some very good reasons, uh, are not, um, do not have the school meals program for the federal, and that's due, like you said, to love like rural logistical things and whatnot. Um, and yeah, I can do some more research into— um, we've talked to a couple of those districts and the reasons why, and I know some of them have said that, uh, programs like this adding incentives from the state would push them in the direction of maybe applying for the federal school meals program more. But, um, I can do some more research and get back to you on that. I don't know. I think you asked another question.

Follow-up? Yes, thank you. Um, I guess as I'm kind of thinking about this a little bit more, it's more of a where, where is the problem within the state? Is it an urban problem or is it a remote issue? And is this a solution for which section of, of of our state, is it going to fix the problem?

Through the co-chair, uh, I can tell you where most of the children that are applicable to the reduced price meal program live. I guess I have those numbers here, and I know that due to CEP eligibility requirements and things, a lot of rural schools which have poorer populations, they have system— they apply for the federal program that makes children within a school district or a school eat lunch for free. So a lot of the children that apply for the reduced-price meal program as is are located in more populated areas. So one second, I can read off a list of the more populated areas with reduced-price meal children. The Fairbanks North Starboro School District has 870 children. The Matanuska-Susitna Borough School District has 724. Anchorage School District has 637. The Kenai Peninsula Borough School District has 557 children. And the Juneau School District has 149. And then the numbers sort of drop off from there.

And, um, yeah, Representative Dybert. Thank you. Through the co-chair to Representative Elam, I just want to add that, you know, This is a CS, and the original bill was for millions more, and we've kind of whittled it out. So it isn't going to help, as my hopes and dreams, all the children in Alaska. But this bill will be a support, and it kind of hones in on just that smaller number of just serving around 3,000 students. In Alaska. And then if we see that this works and if we, you know, we can continue adding to this legislation to make it better if we see a difference in our communities. So I just want to say this bill is a start, and there we have heard from districts that that don't have facilities and don't have food for their kids, like Lake and Penn District, they would love to have the original version of the bill, you know, to help them feed their students. But just where we are, we can't do it, and we're starting with this.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Co-chair Story.

Thank you. Through the chair, thank you, Rep. Dibert. Thank you very much for bringing your bill forward today. I'm sorry I missed the first part of the presentation. I'm— and you may have talked about this, but I'm trying to remember back from my school board days, it seemed to be that we were negotiating the price of meals with our contractor for the food program. And so I think that the cost probably varies from district to district. Depending upon what they— what the rates they have with their food provider. Is there more a standard cost for the price of lunch? I'm trying to— I know we don't have an updated fiscal note yet, but I mean, like, what's the— what is typically the reduced cost for a meal? I know there's a full cost and this is targeting the reduced cost for a meal, and it's not— must not be standard statewide since we have different food service providers. Can you sort of walk me through how, how this looks?

Staff Member Roach?

Yes, through the co-chair. It's a co-chair story. I can speak to the price of the reduced meals and how much children would pay specifically. I believe federal regulations make it to where for reduced-price breakfasts, schools cannot charge more than 30 cents to the children, and for lunches it's 40 cents. So across the state, that, that number is consistent.

Follow-up?

Yes, follow-up. So there must— so there, there is a set price for a lunch, like it costs $3.40. Anyway, so I guess I'm a little confused, and maybe I am thinking of regular price lunches. I just know that we would— we could set what we— the reimbursement that we would be paying to our food service provider. We would be negotiating that. So I'm a little confused.

Through the co-chair to co-chair Story,

Yeah, and I think I know, like, in Fairbanks, you're right, like, a lunch costs like $3.40 per child. And I'm just— I know my district, and I'm not sure what it costs to send a lunch to a rural community like Tanana or Galena, or, you know, I'm not sure the price differences, um, but is there a federal base price? Do we know for a reduced price?

Okay, through the co-chair, I do have that information. I don't have it on me at the moment. I can get it to you for at least the federal price. I'm not sure about variance within the state, and I can do some research and get it to the committee if that pleases.

Thank you. Follow-up? I was just— through the chair, I was just wondering if someone was on the line from DEED who works with the school nutrition programs and could— No, I'm sorry, we don't have anybody online. Okay, thank you. Yes, I'd look forward to that information. Representative Eisheit.

Thank you, Co-Chair Hamschuetz. Through the co-chair, I think I got lost in some of the numbers. I did get the individual district numbers that you gave So thank you for that. What, what's the total number of students in Alaska that qualify for reduced-price lunch? Can you give that number? I think you gave it before. Through the co-chair to represent Aishide, so for year 2026, there are 3,326 children, and that shifts from year to year. Uh, just looking at the trend over the past decade, uh, in 2016, there was around 5,300, and that number has steadily decrease down to 3,300 in 2026. So the number will shift from year to year.

Follow-up?

I'm curious why it's trended downward. What's the economic reasons for that? Through the co-chair, I would imagine at least part of it is just due to outmigration and school, uh, attendance rates, but that's about as much as I can attest to, I think.

I would posit it's possible that some of those kids who are receiving reduced price have now slid into full, right, receiving full meal coverage. So I'm gonna— any other questions from the committee? I have a couple. Okay, so I am just amazed that the total number— we have like 100,000 to 120,000 kids in our system in the state, and only 3,000 of them are on reduced price. So my question is, is it possible that districts just don't have the wherewithal to chase down the paperwork, that more kids would qualify? I'm thinking, you know, we, we always want the money to go to the classrooms. We don't want to have a lot of administration, but the person who's going to actually call the family and say, hey, it looks like you're struggling to to pay for these meals, that takes a human being doing that outreach. So I'm sort of amazed at the number. Do you know off the top of your head, or do you have with you, how many kids receive full meals?

Like the—

we used to call it free and reduced price, so the free meals through the co-chair. So I'm just going to read off my notes here. The amount of children that pay full price for meals is 48,527. The amount they're eligible for free meals, like you asked, is $46,198, so about half. And then the amount that's eligible for reduced-price lunches and meals is $3,326. So it's kind of a smaller sliver, I suppose.

Did you want to add to that, Representative?

Yeah, Representative— our co-chair, Himschoot, On the question of applying, we heard from Principal Zverev from Fairbanks, and she had mentioned that it is a chore to track down families and making sure they apply for these free and reduced lunches because it helps their school and it feeds kids. And there is a standard price. So I remember when you apply for that, there is a federal standard price, but I'm just not entirely sure what that price is. So when parents fill out that, that application, you get into a pool of—

so I just want to run through what I think I understand, how I think I understand the program works, and then you guys will correct me. So there is an application that's a standard application. Who— for the family to say we need some assistance with meals, who sets the threshold at which that family qualifies? Is that a federally determined threshold or is it locally determined?

To the co-chair, that is a federal requirement and it varies. In your packets, actually, there is a document from the Federal Register which lays out how that's determined, and it's kind of complicated. It— the amount that makes, uh, families qualify varies based on like household amount, and it's also tailored specifically to Alaska. The 48 contiguous states have their own way of deciding the rate, and then Alaska and Hawaii have two separate ways.

Okay, so— oh, Rep. Sandberg.

Yeah, through co-chair Himschute, in Fairbanks, over— I think it was in January before we came down, I walked through with an elder signing up their grandchild to this program at a school in my district. And it was just a one-pager. The elder just had to write down their address, some like address and, but when it came to their, what they earn in a year, it was very simple. It just said, what do you earn in a year? And so we put it down and it was just like Social Security each month. And so then they signed it and we handed it in. And so I don't know, that was it. It was just you sign up, put down the amount you earn, and give it to the secretary. Right. I was actually— it took like a minute. So, right. But we had to— I had to tell the elder, do you know about the free and reduced price lunches? They didn't, so I don't know if I weren't there or if the secretary didn't mention it or the principal who was there. And I also said there's an after-school program here, would you like to apply? That's a whole other route, but, you know, folks don't know.

And yeah, and I guess that's that whole admin piece. It takes a person tracking who's applied, who hasn't applied, who— and, and then also being able to watch the school lunch program who's not been able to, to pay, and then making contact with those folks. And so, okay, so then there's a federal application, um, that's standard, and then there's a federal rate that's paid, that's the Alaska rate, but the price of meals is going to vary greatly by school district. So there's a certain amount, there's a, a floor of federal support for the meals that every district districts can get. And then that gap between what the federal amount is that the district can get per meal and what the meal actually costs is what is charged to families. And yet the amount that— so the 30 cents and the 40 cents, if the difference between the federal amount and the full amount is more than 30 cents for a breakfast or 40 cents for a lunch, that's what this will cover, the 30 cents plus whatever that difference is?

To the co-chair, I believe this amount is only looking at covering the cost to the students. So the cost that's burdened by the, the schools themselves is not the focus of the legislation, is that 30 or 40 cent number that the families will be shouldering.

I see. So then there could still be an amount the district is is paying. So if a meal costs— if a breakfast costs $2 and the federal government pays $1, this bill will cover the 30 cents, and then that 70 cents will still fall to the family— sorry, to the district.

Okay, to the culture. Yes.

Okay, great. And then one other question I had, and then if there are no other questions, we're going to set an amendment deadline, but The other question I had is on the permanent fund mechanism. I just want to make sure I understand that as well. So to help— and again, we're waiting for that fiscal note— but to help with that fiscal note, when I apply for my dividend, I can pick Click Give, and one of my options will be this— what's it called— school lunch program or something. There was a nutrition fund or something. Sorry, I don't have that part part open right now?

To the food care, yes. The school reduced price meal fund would be an option.

And that would be in just the list of all the different places I could give. It's not with the education raffle, which is— I applied in Jan— I do

January 1st every year, so it's been a while, but there's the education raffle is separate from Pick Click Give. So this would be with the Pick Click Give section?

To the co-chair, that is my understanding, yes.

Okay, so I would have to find it among— because I sometimes look for organizations in my communities, or—

okay. Yeah, through the co-chair, Himshut. I just filed for my PFD and I looked at the list and it's, it's pretty long on what you can give to, so we would be adding school lunch programs to that list.

Okay, fantastic, that helps. Any other questions? Representative Aishide.

Thank you, Co-Chair Himchew. Just, I, I just looked up on my iPad for Juneau for the '25-'26 school year, a standard lunch for a student that's not getting a reduced lunch or free lunch is $5.50 for that lunch, or $27.50 a day, just for awareness. And that's Juneau for this current year.

So $27.50 a week?

A week, yeah. Okay, $5.50 for a standard lunch for a student. For adults, it's more. So if you're a staff, or it's $7.50.

Okay, that's helpful. Okay, any— oh, Schwonke. Representative Schwonke.

All right, uh, thank you, uh, through the co-chair. I, I just wanted to kind of point out you had mentioned earlier, you know, that maybe the, the cost was in the $3 range, uh, the, the federal cost. But in— you'd mentioned about the rural schools, and I do know that in some of my districts they're pushing $6 to $7 per day. And then I was just kind of reading, um, one of the letters in the packet there, and it did actually mention a Newhalland school, $9 a day, and And I just wanted to point out that in this letter, it's actually really interesting that they list a couple options, option 1, 2, and 3. And option 2 is actually something that I see happening in my district a lot, and that's where there is no federal school lunch program, so there's no federal oversight requirements. And that's one of the reasons that there are so many I would think that we're having some schools, especially some of the smaller ones, give up their food service program altogether just because the intense cost to meet the high bar. And this option too has to do with kind of pulling back from that federal oversight and then doing it locally and having parents and community members come in. They can donate food.

They—

and so we do this in a lot of our Copper River schools, and people are able to actually donate wild game meat and fish, and then volunteers and parents actually prepare school lunches kind of in the cafeteria, and it is just something to consider, you know, that there are maybe some other ways if we at some point are able to kind of step away from the federal oversight. So yeah, I just, I appreciate the presentation. I really feel like you guys did a lot of work in pulling together some really good data. So thank you.

Through the co-chair to Representative Schwanke, thank you for your comment. In my perfect world, growing up in rural Alaska too at fish camp and at moose camp, I know the importance of food from the area for our people. In my perfect world, I'd love to help out because it's still very expensive to go out and fish and hunt. The price of gas and the days off from work. It would be great if this bill at some point in time could help our subsistence hunters too with those costs of getting food for the community if it's going to go to children and to the schools. So thank you for your comment.

Okay, seeing no additional questions from the committee, thank you so much, Rep. Dibert and Staff Member Roach. We I really appreciate your time. I'm going to set an amendment deadline for this bill for Friday, April 10th at noon. And we're going to set this bill aside to be taken up at a later date. Appreciate your time. And we're going to take a quick at ease. I was traveling some months ago and I've always talked about being discombobulated. And I love that at TSA they have a thing that says recombobulation station. So we're going to recombobulate. So we're going to go at ease. Okay, we're going to go back on record and move on to our next agenda item, which is Senate Bill 181, entitled An Act Relating to Disclosure of Information Obtained by the Department of Labor and Workforce Development to Other State Agencies. And again, this bill came as a suggestion through the work of the Legislative Seafood Task Force. This bill previously had one hearing in this committee, during which we heard both invited and public testimony. No amendments were received by the deadline. I would like to welcome staff member Tim Lampkin to come forward, introduce yourself on the record, and give us a short reintroduction of the bill. Then we'll take some committee questions.

Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the committee. For the record, Tim Lampkin, staff to Senator Stevens. Before you is Senate Bill 181, a product of the Alaska Seafood Task Force or affectionately referred to as Fish Force, that you, although not being a member of, participated in and were there. We appreciate your participation. I'm here just simply to shepherd the bill. It's really our star witnesses being from ICER and from the Department of Labor that I'd like to present you with.

Yes, okay, thank you for that. Just for the committee's awareness, we do have Paloma Harbour, Director of the Division of Employment and Training Services at the Department of Labor, Diane Hirschberg, Director, Institute of Social and Economic Research at UAA, and Brett Watson, economist from also ISER, Institute of Social and Economic Research. So we have some folks online for questions. Are there committee questions for either Staff Member Lamkin or the folks online? Seeing no questions, I would entertain a motion. I move 34-LS0921/A from committee with attached fiscal notes and individual recommendations. Is there an objection? Seeing no objection, 34-LS0921/A moves from committee with attached fiscal notes and individual recommendations. We are going to take a quick at ease to do the paperwork.

All right, here we go. We're gonna keep going. Okay, we are back on record and we're gonna take up our next And final order of business today, which is Senate Bill 20 by Senator Gray-Jackson, entitled An Act Relating to Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation Education in Public Schools and Relating to the Duties of the Department of Education and Early Development. This bill has had one hearing in this committee during which we heard invited testimony from several Anchorage-based fire and public safety officials. I would like to welcome Senator Gray-Jackson and staff Denali Zandtopp to come forward and introduce yourself for the record, for a short reintroduction of this bill. And then I want the committee to know that online for questions, if anyone has them, we have Christina Damian from the American College of Cardiology out in Washington, D.C. We have Heather Cavanaugh, a volunteer with the American Heart Association in Anchorage, from whom we also received an email. And we have Brian Webb representing himself from Anchorage. He is a paramedic. And so those folks are online for questions. Welcome, Senator and staff members.

And thank you, thank you. Senator Elvie Gray Jackson, Representative District G in Anchorage. Thank you to the committee co-chairs and the committee as a whole for hearing this bill a second time. So as a brief recap, CPR instruction is a vital part of emergency preparedness, teaching individuals how to perform chest compressions and rescue breaths. To maintain circulation, oxygen flow until professional help arrives. There are over 40 states currently teaching similar curriculum in their public schools. Studies show that timely CPR significantly increases survival chances after cardiac arrest, especially in rural or remote areas with longer emergency response times. Widespread CPR training empowers communities to act quickly in emergencies and to save lives. During the first meeting, the fire department members gave compelling testimony about how traumatic it is to witness a cardiac arrest without CPR being performed. It is equally difficult to imagine the trauma family and friends endure when watching a loved one face such a frightening emergency. This bill has the potential to transform that trauma into a positive outcome. So as a reminder, my, my staff and I have provided detailed answers to two questions that were raised during the first meeting. We also have, as you know, invited testimony online that are prepared to address any technical questions about implementation, potential impacts on rural Alaska, and any other committee concerns. My legislative intern here, Denali Zandtuff, she's also available to respond to questions. Again, thank you for considering this potentially life-saving bill.

Thank you. Senator Zandtuff, did you have something to add? Through the co-chair, for the record, Denali Zandtopp. I am here to answer questions if the committee wishes, but thank you. Okay, thanks for your time. I'm going to look to the committee for questions on this bill. Representative Elam?

I guess I don't have necessarily so much a question, but it's good, it's needed. Yeah, I'll just— I'll leave it at that. Thank you.

Well, thank you for your comments.

Representative Dybert.

Thank you. Through the co-chair to Senator Gray Jackson, thank you for bringing this bill forward. I guess I would add to just my thoughts In my area, my district, we have in the springtime the start of the track and field and lots of sports going on. And there was an incident where this happened, and at the track, and a couple of times I run adult night track and field, and an adult actually needed resuscitation. Luckily, we had a doctor there that was running with us. But I think this is important for high school sports as well, where, you know, kids are going from zero to full blast, and you just never know what happens. And when we could train our youth to help each other so that people You know, this doesn't— we could save lives with this. And I just hope that with these lessons that we really, you know, tell our youth to watch out for ourselves during these, these sports that kids are in and where they are going all out. So somehow highlight it that way too. Thank you so much for bringing this bill forward.

Representative Reichert.

Thank you, Co-Chair Hemschute. I just wanted to add some context to this bill. I really support this bill. I think it's a great effort. You know, I already talked about an incident at my school, but the thing I would add as a former high school— or excuse me, a former track and cross-country coach at the middle level, Grade 6 through 9. So I was, you know, a distance running coach. I'm a distance runner, and that means your young athletes go on long runs, and they all don't run the same pace. And as a coach, I ran with my runners. I would always start at the back with the slowest runners, and then I'd move my way up and try to challenge the faster runners. I'm a pretty decent runner, I could do that. And, um, and we talked a lot about safety. You know, how do you run on a roadway safely, facing the traffic, wearing high visibility? Uh, but sometimes my young athletes, we used a buddy system, but they were by themselves with their buddy, and I— we didn't offer this kind of curriculum in my school district in Wisconsin where I taught, but this would have comforted me, and I think also their parents, to know that if one of my young athletes had collapsed with a heart that wasn't working at the moment, that their buddy, through this curriculum, would have been able to apply lifesaving services. As a coach, I worried about my athletes constantly because I did what I was trying— I was trying to make them better runners. And I don't want to deemphasize the trauma of being somebody in a position to help someone and not having the skills. And I've always been a person that learned those skills myself. But I really support this bill. And I just want to add that context. And it might save me someday. I'm not unaware of that. So thank you for bringing this bill forward.

Co-chair Surui.

Thank you. Through the co-chair, welcome. It's good to see both of you again. I have a few questions just to try and help me understand how this will work more so in rural Alaska than in urban Alaska. I think we have access to more certified instructors. And I'm looking at the bill, and on page 2, like lines 4 through 7, it talks about who can teach the class, and it says a current teacher— a current teacher could do this. Present the curriculum. And that is how I think it may work in rural Alaska. Just talking to some other people, they were not saying that they always had someone who was trained

in the current cardiopulmonary resuscitation instructor certificate. And I'm wondering if you've been able to talk to any smaller districts or through ASB or Alaska Council of School Administrators and see how this— they visualize this working.

Senator, through the chair, thank you, Representative Story. There are folks online that could probably answer the question better, but I do have some notes in terms of how it's going work in rural Alaska, and basically the approach is going to be similar statewide with added consideration for the unique needs of rural districts. Resources will be provided to support implementation in rural areas, and DEED will assist the districts in maintaining the most appropriate grade levels. And this is important, particularly important in rural Alaska where class sizes and grade groupings can differ significantly. So DEED's role will be to help these districts assess feasibility and identify where the curriculum can be most effectively integrated. And as I mentioned through the chair, there's folks online that could probably expand on my comments. Thank you.

Do you want to go to someone online?

Yes, thank you for that. Thank you for that information. Yes, I'm not sure who's online, but I would welcome any other comments on that.

So we have a paramedic, Brian Webb. We have Heather Cavanaugh, who's a volunteer with the Heart Association, and we have Christina Damien with the American College of Cardiology. Who do you think would be best able to talk about rural Alaska? Or Senator, who would you suggest?

Thank you, thank you. Um, Brian Webb, but if I may, Madam Chair, Heather Cavanaugh is online for invited testimony.

Okay. We weren't anticipating that. So let's get the question answered from Brian Webb, please. If you could unmute yourself and let us know if you need to hear the question again.

Yes, thank you. This is Brian Webb from Anchorage. I've been an EMS educator for over 40 years and also a CPR instructor for about the same time. Through the chair, I could not catch that question. I'm on my cell phone. Could I have that repeated, please?

Sure. Co-chair Storey?

Thank you, Co-chair Hempschulte. Through the chair to Mr. Webb, my question has to do with in rural Alaska, if they do not have someone holding a current cardiopulmonary resuscitation instructor certificate, It says in this bill that a teacher who's certified could deliver the curriculum, and I was wondering if you knew how it would possibly work in rural Alaska.

If you're there—

Yes, and through the chair, the days of having to have somebody that's actually credentialed as a CPR instructor, those days are actually quite long gone with our public access CPR programs that we've been doing over the past 20 years. And most of our programs for public access, they're video-based with short 2-minute vignettes. And I give King County in Washington with their CPR in Schools program, they developed a program all across the state used in all their rural areas, free access, again video-based, so the person that's actually there say the teacher, is more of a facilitator than a certified instructor. It's watch the videos and then we do the skills, watch the next video, we'll do the skills, watch the next video, and we'll discuss what's on the video. So it's designed so we can push these products out to even those rural areas. And I, again, I've testified before in other committees on this that Our local fire departments and our local EMS and fire agencies are trying more and more to get back into the community-based programs that we started with many years ago. And we should lean on our local fire departments and our local EMS to be subject matter experts, even come into the classroom and be able to help the educators with the program because we are the subject matter experts. In our communities, even in the most rural communities. So there's a lot of support out there for this, and it's not just on the shoulders of the teachers. Even village health aides in the clinics, you know, are subject matter experts in this that could assist as well. So there's a lot of support out there.

Thank you for that. Through the chair, so Mr. Webb, you— it sounds like you have seen village health aides getting the training and you feel that there's a pretty wide web out there for rural Alaska to access.

Mr. Webb?

Yes, through the chair. Yes, that is correct. There's many people that are available and again, the days are gone that we need to have actual credentialed instructors teaching CPR. There are laypeople that are out there that are taking all of these free products and doing community-based CPR just based on those free access products.

I'm gonna jump in on this conversation and just ask you, so with the videos, do you have to have the, I mean, I think it's called a mannequin, do you have to have that? To go with the video to do the practice part, the application part? Mr. Webb?

Through the chair, yes, you can use any number of things. And one of the interesting things that King County did was they had students build their own CPR mannequins, bring in a pillow and bring in an empty bleach jug that's been rinsed out and you can very well and easily simulate performing CPR on home-built products. Make it a school project. I was really impressed with what King County did.

And back to you, Co-Chair Story, follow-up if you have it.

Yeah, follow-up. Thank you. Mr. Webb, can you give me an idea of When you're providing this instruction in the Anchorage School District, do you just come into the classroom and you coordinate with the teacher, the district office to come in, or how does that work?

Mr. Webb?

Yes, it would be simply just contact with the local EMS or fire agency and coordinate with the school administration to make sure that there's access appropriate time slots and everything to be done. It's actually relatively easy to do.

Follow-up? Thank you for that. I appreciate those answers. I also— and this would be to the Senator— it would be helpful just to hear from a rural district about how they visualize it. I don't know if that's possible, you know, at some point. And I guess I can call someone to—

I would— I guess I would add to that, I'm thinking, you know, the contact with local EMS. Sometimes some villages that do have schools don't necessarily have EMS.

So if I can comment, Madam Chair, thank you. As I mentioned during the last hearing, I saw during the interim, a video that was provided by Providence, and the video was CPR training being done in a rural community. I can't remember which one, and it was pretty amazing. And these children looked like they might have been in, gosh, second grade and above. And again, it was amazing how the training was performed. Thank you, Madam Chair.

I think Representative Eichheit had a question and then we'll go back to Representative Ewing.

Yeah, thank you, Co-Chair Himschoot. More of a comment. I know on the rural Alaska issue, my staff and I were looking at village public safety officers. Not every one village has those. I think there's just under 100, but those folks receive CPR training. And are first responders, and I believe they receive 40 hours. So even though I don't think they're instructors, they can certainly come into schools and assist a teacher. And I know as a certified teacher, I've sometimes had been challenged with teaching things that were not my first line of expertise, and you've become pretty good at adapting to students' needs. So A little context there.

Madam Chair, if I may. Senator, my staff just reminded me that last week I met with the superintendent from Cuspeck School District. I forgot all about it because we meet with so many people, and her concern was how it was going to work in rural areas. And we had a really great meeting, and she walked away feeling very comfortable. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Helpful for her to join

at the next, at the next hearing. Um, Representative Elam.

Thank you. Um, so I did a lot of fire and EMS in my 20s. Uh, I was—

I—

so last year?

Yes, not that long ago. It was just right around the corner. Um, and I did— I was a CPR instructor. I did all of the classes, the trainings, and everything. So it's actually pretty easy to learn how to teach CPR and also just to do CPR. I do know that within our healthcare systems around particularly the peninsula, we do a lot of video training. We have the dummies, the mannequins, and, and on all of those, but you don't have to have any of those cool gadgets. They're fun, but in the end of the day, it's actually really easy to teach CPR with a pillow and a bottle. Been down there in the King County area as well. I volunteered in Spokane County for a number of years, and so pretty familiar with those whole areas. So I think personally we can probably implement this with minimal amount of overhead even in some of the rural areas, but the amount of reward that you would get from it is— yeah, yeah, especially when you start talking about kids. So, there's a lot of opportunity there.

Okay. I had some questions as well if the committee questions are finished. Representative Schwanke.

Thank you, Commissioner Himshute. I've got a couple questions. Since one of the things that the bill does is kind of it moves CPR from a may to a shall. I wonder if we know the extent of school districts and, and even schools across the state that are currently offering and covering some sort of CPR training within districts. That's my first question.

Senator or Senator Zantop, for the record, Denali Zantop, and turn to Senator Gray Jackson. I do not have those numbers in front of me, but I can get that information to the committee. I will say the structure of this bill and the way it's written is so that school districts can choose to implement it, um, and if they have that ability to do so. So if a school district is unable, they will not be faulted for not providing the CPR instruction. It is just requiring that DEED will be determining the grade levels and working with that school district. But thank you for the question, Representative Schwanke.

Follow-up: my understanding is that this includes CPR as a graduation requirement, so I'm, I'm a little confused on that. And then this— I guess my second question is, how do we see this working with the state's correspondent student population.

Through the chair, Representative Schwanke, it's not a graduation requirement, not at all. And your second question, I'm not able to answer, but maybe somebody online can answer the question for you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

What was the second question? Maybe we can direct that. I do want to jump in here for a second because on page 2, lines 7 through 9, It says each public school providing instruction to students in grades for which this curriculum has been adopted shall offer the instruction. So it may not be a graduation requirement, but Ms. Zentup, could you clarify that schools— so if the department says this is a 10th grade thing and a district offers a 10th grade, to me this reads that they shall provide the instruction in that 10th grade, in all of their 10th grade classrooms. Can you clarify when you said that a district doesn't have to do it?

Yes, through co-chair Story, or co-chair Himshootai, my apologies.

We're the same, it's okay.

So that line is— it's so, for example, the class could be offered, say, on in the first 2 weeks of that 10th grade year, right? And necessarily it's not a requirement for the students to attend said class. It is just a requirement that the schools are providing the class.

So the schools— to clarify, the schools would have to offer it, but a child would not be prevented from getting a diploma if they didn't receive the course, if they were absent?

That is correct.

So schools must provide it, students don't have to receive it?

That is correct.

Representative Schwanke, I'm sorry, I jumped in there. What was your second question? We'll find someone to answer it.

Thank you, Co-Chair Himscheit. I just was curious how we envision this working with our correspondence population.

Do you have—

yes, through the co-chair to Representative Schwanke. So there is a curriculum being developed by Brian Webb, so he would probably be able to answer this a bit better than I would. But I know from CPR training I have taken as a distance student, you can take videos online as this is not a In part of the bill, you do not have to have a CPR certification for instruction. You just need to be able to teach the hands-only portion of a CPR course, which does not require any certification. Thank you for the question.

Follow-up: What would be a hands-on component then for those distance learning students?

Let Brian answer. Through the chair, can we ask that— have Brian Webb answer that question, please, on our behalf? Thank you.

Brian Webb, if you could unmute yourself and put your name on record and help us with this question. We can repeat it if you need.

Yes, thank you. Through the chair, it's Brian Webb from Anchorage once more. And the free access open video programs that are available out there would actually lend itself very well to the correspondence and also the homeschool. Programs where the parents or a group of parents to get together for the collaborative efforts in their education process. They could get together and do the program right there in the home or wherever it is that they're meeting. So the correspondence and also homeschool, like I said, the free access programs that are out there would lend itself quite well to that program.

Okay.

Thank you.

Okay. Seeing no other questions from the committee, I have a couple of questions. Jotting one more down. My first one is, which other states have a requirement like this?

For the record, Denali Zantop, co-chair HIMS SHUHD. It would be easier for me to name states that don't have a statewide CPR graduation, uh, or CPR requirement, um, those being Alaska, Hawaii, Massachusetts, and Pennsylvania. Um, there are 4 other states where CPR is not mandatory, it's recommended or partial or not required for all students, and that would be Colorado, North Dakota, South Dakota, and California currently has legislation pending for a graduation requirement.

So we would be in that second group right now without this bill because it is mentioned, it is part of our health— the statute addresses it as something that would be included in a health curriculum right now. So we're in the second group right now? Yes. Thank you. And then is AED education required with this, or do we assume that the AED tells you what to do so we don't need to train people on AED? What is that, automatic electronic defibrillator or something? External.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would refer that question to Brian Webb. Please, thank you.

Okay, Brian Webb, if you could unmute yourself again please and address AED. I've never used one, but I've seen them. and so I just want to make sure that the bill is doing everything we need it to do. Do we need to train people on AED or do those things speak to you and tell you what to do and no further training is required?

Yes, thank you. Through the chair, it's Brian Webb once more from Anchorage. Yes, the AED program would be included in this and the free access video vignettes that are available out there also have short 2- and 5-minute how-to, how to use the AED, and we can use any number of products to simulate the use of the AED. Most of the AEDs are almost exactly alike, push the button, turn it on, wait for all the prompts, and that's the essence of it, of how to manage the AED, and the videos cover it quite well, and there's Like I said, any number of methods to be able to use to simulate the AED. And in a couple courses I've done, we've built it just like a school project, like what I mentioned with the pillows and the bleach bottles, and we simulated an AED as a school project, as a class project, and we're able to work our way through utilization of the AED with very little cost to any buyer, or actually very little effort. So there's options that are out there.

OK. Thank you for that. And I just have to tell a story. Maybe I told this already. Getting old. I worked on an island where we had endangered monk seals. And I, of course, was not qualified to work with the endangered seal population. However, there was a veterinarian and a biologist. And they were doing work with the monk seals. And we all had to train on how to provide CPR to a monk seal in case things went wrong. And that involved pillows and then people having to reach across and the compressions were actually people opposite each other pulling themselves in to compress the seal. Thankfully, we never implemented it, but apparently it's been tested and it works on seals too. So, okay. Another question I have is, and, and I think we've kind of gotten at this question a little bit, but, and I just wanna ask it one more time, what will this cost a rural district. So, in theory, it's going to be an online training, so we're gonna assume that our rural districts have internet to be able to deliver this and they can use locally available materials. So, it's a question of staff time. If a staff member— back to that section on who can teach it, it says on page 2 starting on line 4, a person holding a current cardiopulmonary resuscitation instructor certificate which could be our local EMS people in communities that have that, and then a license or certificate to provide emergency medical services. So that— so an EMT, basic EMT, or a current teacher certificate may present the curriculum. So the, the educator, the certified educator, does not have to have a CPR certificate. They just have to be able to deliver the online curriculum, and then the compression part of it can be modeled with locally available materials. So the cost to a local school district is the cost of student time and staff time. That's it. Through, um, the chair, yes. Okay, thank you. And then I'm just going to tell one more story, unless there are other questions. I think we're ready to set the bill aside. So my other story is that Where I live and in many parts of Alaska, cold water safety is probably every bit as important as this for the, the age groups that are in schools. And we know of lives that have been saved with cold water safety. So at some point, I hope that we will see clear that is not a course that can be taught simply in and without additional training. So we don't currently have online ways to teach kids how to build a survival shelter. Or how to build their own survival kit. So anyway, that's just something I want to put on record that would be as important in my district. So I appreciate this bill. I'm going to take a really brief at ease to recombobulate. And if there are no additional questions from the committee, we're going to set this bill aside and take it up hopefully next week again. And thank you, Senator Gray-Jackson and staff members on top for being here. That concludes the business before the committee today. For our next meeting this Friday, April 10th at 8:00 a.m., we will hear House Bill 231 from Representative Freer and House Bill 383 from the House Education Committee. As a reminder, the committee's email address is [email protected]. Public testimony can be sent to this address. Seeing no further business before the committee, this meeting is adjourned at 9:00 a.m. 23 AM.